therman's 12 year old SPS system...top down shot, starting to enjoy this tank again

[therman]

Alright, you’re gonna make me move back to Ohio. That’s so nice!

I don't suggest taking such extreme measures. I can ship.

 

[minus9]

I don't suggest taking such extreme measures. I can ship.

Just being a drama dude. After spending the first 33 years of my life in Ohio, I’m good with just visiting. I will definitely buy from you, but gotta reset the tank first and throw on some halides. While everyone is going to LEDs, I’m going back to my roots. Cheers!

 

[therman]

JF Fox Flame was looking fine today and needed an updated picture. Really hard to beat this classic, looks stunning in a colony unlike so many corals that only have pretty edges.

 

[therman]

Hey all,

I've gotten a lot of requests for system parameters from quite a few people who have gotten frags off of me lately. To make it easier I will post them here.

I have 2 systems running now, a "main" of around 850g total volume, and a "backup" of around 300g.

For the main system, it has been running in one form or another since 2006. It has been loaded with biodiversity from the start with Fiji cultured live rock, which I havent seen available in 10+ years. There are tons and tons of sponges, bristle worms of at least 3 varieties, 2-3 types of mini brittle stars, Stomatella, etc that are constantly breeding. It has a moderate fish load and 4 auto-feeders feeding NLS pellets and Formula 2 flake multiple times each day. So plenty of nutrient input however nitrates constistently read 0. I attribute this to the massive amount of fast growing coral that sucks up most of the nitrogen before it is converted to nitrate. A microbiome analysis confirmed almost no detectable nitrifying bacteria.

Here are the numbers for the main system:
Temp 77-79F
SG 1.026
KH 9.0-9.4 (I aim for the middle of this range) (edit 8/2022, I aim for ~8.5 now, I think swings when KH went up from the 9s were too harsh on corals, and I had some nasty losses from it earlier this year. Everything seems just as happy in the mid 8s and I think it is a safer baseline)
NO3 0
PO4 ~0.12 ppm
Most Acropora are in the ~400 PAR range, with a few high light varieties from 500-600

The backup system is a bit different, much newer. Even though it started with 50%+ rock and water from the main system, it still has some major differences after running for 2+ years. I dose sodium nitrate solution and it consistently has lower phosphate levels. Certain tenuis especially seem to prefer these conditions, some grow about the same, and some Acropora really prefer the main system:

Numbers for the backup system:
Temp 77-78
SG 1.026
KH 8.0-8.7 (much bigger daily fluctuation, as the lights are not staggered on the different backup tanks like the main).
NO3 ~20ppm
PO4 ~0.05ppm

I've come to realize there really is no perfect middle ground for these levels, especially with some of the more "difficult" Acropora. Each species/variety seems to have different optimal ranges to grow best, and you can't hope to make them all happy in the same system without becoming really frustrated. Some varieties don't do well in either system, and I just have to be happy with what I have and not stress out over it.

Hope this is useful!

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Bro the Reefgen Blueberry Fantasy and aris avalanche are absolutely obscene. Please let the aris avalanche grow like you did the jd! I am very curious how the branches form on that one. I will have to keep checking for any others I might have missed when I get a chance, thanks for sharing these amazing corals.

 

[Smarkow]

Hey all,

I've gotten a lot of requests for system parameters from quite a few people who have gotten frags off of me lately. To make it easier I will post them here.

I have 2 systems running now, a "main" of around 850g total volume, and a "backup" of around 300g.

For the main system, it has been running in one form or another since 2006. It has been loaded with biodiversity from the start with Fiji cultured live rock, which I havent seen available in 10+ years. There are tons and tons of sponges, bristle worms of at least 3 varieties, 2-3 types of mini brittle stars, Stomatella, etc that are constantly breeding. It has a moderate fish load and 4 auto-feeders feeding NLS pellets and Formula 2 flake multiple times each day. So plenty of nutrient input however nitrates constistently read 0. I attribute this to the massive amount of fast growing coral that sucks up most of the nitrogen before it is converted to nitrate. A microbiome analysis confirmed almost no detectable nitrifying bacteria.

Here are the numbers for the main system:
Temp 77-79F
SG 1.026
KH 9.0-9.4 (I aim for the middle of this range)
NO3 0
PO4 ~0.12 ppm
Most Acropora are in the ~400 PAR range, with a few high light varieties from 500-600

The backup system is a bit different, much newer. Even though it started with 50%+ rock and water from the main system, it still has some major differences after running for 2+ years. I dose sodium nitrate solution and it consistently has lower phosphate levels. Certain tenuis especially seem to prefer these conditions, some grow about the same, and some Acropora really prefer the main system:

Numbers for the backup system:
Temp 77-78
SG 1.026
KH 9.0-9.7 (much bigger daily fluctuation, as the lights are not staggered on the different backup tanks like the main).
NO3 ~20ppm
PO4 ~0.05ppm

I've come to realize there really is no perfect middle ground for these levels, especially with some of the more "difficult" Acropora. Each species/variety seems to have different optimal ranges to grow best, and you can't hope to make them all happy in the same system without becoming really frustrated. Some varieties don't do well in either system, and I just have to be happy with what I have and not stress out over it.

Hope this is useful!

The microbiome comment is fascinating. I am curious where in your reef you sampled from? I wonder if the nitrifiers are deep in the center of the porous live rock

 

[therman]

Bro the Reefgen Blueberry Fantasy and aris avalanche are absolutely obscene. Please let the aris avalanche grow like you did the jd! I am very curious how the branches form on that one. I will have to keep checking for any others I might have missed when I get a chance, thanks for sharing these amazing corals.

That is the plan! Though I did cut frags of each to sweeten an "Ultimate Smoothie Pack" with the JD and Hung's, and a few other hidden gems. Also cut a backup frag of the Ari's to try in my backup system.

 

[therman]

The microbiome comment is fascinating. I am curious where in your reef you sampled from? I wonder if the nitrifiers are deep in the center of the porous live rock

The @AquaBiomics analysis has a protocol for sampling both the water and surfaces hidden from light. Nitrification is an aerobic process, so it is unlikely to occur deep inside of live rock where oxygen is in short supply. You may be thinking of denitrification where nitrate is converted into N2 anaerobically. I guess it is possible that is happening, but given the vast quantities of rapidly growing SPS, I doubt any nitrogen would make it that far without being absorbed by something else.

 

[Smarkow]

The @AquaBiomics analysis has a protocol for sampling both the water and surfaces hidden from light. Nitrification is an aerobic process, so it is unlikely to occur deep inside of live rock where oxygen is in short supply. You may be thinking of denitrification where nitrate is converted into N2 anaerobically. I guess it is possible that is happening, but given the vast quantities of rapidly growing SPS, I doubt any nitrogen would make it that far without being absorbed by something else.

Yup that’s what I was thinking
V cool

 

[BAUCE]

Hey all,

I've gotten a lot of requests for system parameters from quite a few people who have gotten frags off of me lately. To make it easier I will post them here.

I have 2 systems running now, a "main" of around 850g total volume, and a "backup" of around 300g.

For the main system, it has been running in one form or another since 2006. It has been loaded with biodiversity from the start with Fiji cultured live rock, which I havent seen available in 10+ years. There are tons and tons of sponges, bristle worms of at least 3 varieties, 2-3 types of mini brittle stars, Stomatella, etc that are constantly breeding. It has a moderate fish load and 4 auto-feeders feeding NLS pellets and Formula 2 flake multiple times each day. So plenty of nutrient input however nitrates constistently read 0. I attribute this to the massive amount of fast growing coral that sucks up most of the nitrogen before it is converted to nitrate. A microbiome analysis confirmed almost no detectable nitrifying bacteria.

Here are the numbers for the main system:
Temp 77-79F
SG 1.026
KH 9.0-9.4 (I aim for the middle of this range)
NO3 0
PO4 ~0.12 ppm
Most Acropora are in the ~400 PAR range, with a few high light varieties from 500-600

The backup system is a bit different, much newer. Even though it started with 50%+ rock and water from the main system, it still has some major differences after running for 2+ years. I dose sodium nitrate solution and it consistently has lower phosphate levels. Certain tenuis especially seem to prefer these conditions, some grow about the same, and some Acropora really prefer the main system:

Numbers for the backup system:
Temp 77-78
SG 1.026
KH 9.0-9.7 (much bigger daily fluctuation, as the lights are not staggered on the different backup tanks like the main).
NO3 ~20ppm
PO4 ~0.05ppm

I've come to realize there really is no perfect middle ground for these levels, especially with some of the more "difficult" Acropora. Each species/variety seems to have different optimal ranges to grow best, and you can't hope to make them all happy in the same system without becoming really frustrated. Some varieties don't do well in either system, and I just have to be happy with what I have and not stress out over it.

Hope this is useful!

Why did you have to go and post about running your insane SPS system at 0 nitrates? Everything we're told says you need at least 5-10 ppm for good coloration! Do you think this system just processes them quickly from being so established? Im guessing you feed a lot or dose some kind of aminos to offset this? Mine have been at nearly zero for the last few months and you can certainly tell because of how pale they are. I started dosing nitrates again a few days ago and can already see the difference in color.

 

[therman]

Why did you have to go and post about running your insane SPS system at 0 nitrates? Everything we're told says you need at least 5-10 ppm for good coloration! Do you think this system just processes them quickly from being so established? Im guessing you feed a lot or dose some kind of aminos to offset this? Mine have been at nearly zero for the last few months and you can certainly tell because of how pale they are. I started dosing nitrates again a few days ago and can already see the difference in color.

Like I said, I feed quite a bit (4 autofeeders each feeding a pellet/flake mix 3x/day) and the equivalent of at least a cube or two of DIY frozen food once a day to a copper band that won't eat dry food. I also hand feed more NLS pellets daily to a few fish in 4 other tanks in the system without auto feeders. From what I understand, corals actually may "prefer" to uptake nitrogen in the form of ammonia, so they are just using it up before it is converted to nitrite or nitrate. There is definitely a constant nitrogen input into the system from the fish, and what I would guess is about 10lbs of bristle worm, snail, and starfish biomass in the system (wildly unscientific estimate...but it is a LOT).

I started dosing nitrates to the backup tank as an experiment. Colors are definitely darker and more vivid in some corals, but growth is slower in almost everything. Whether this is a product of the nitrogen availability as ammonia vs nitrate, the lower phosphates, or just the newer system in general, I have no idea. Some corals do better, some do worse.

 

[mitten_reef]

I started dosing nitrates to the backup tank as an experiment. Colors are definitely darker and more vivid in some corals, but growth is slower in almost everything. Whether this is a product of the nitrogen availability as ammonia vs nitrate, the lower phosphates, or just the newer system in general, I have no idea. Some corals do better, some do worse.

I love this bit. Everyone is always searching for that magic recipe for success. But as you demonstrated, there isn't really one, aside from maturation (in itself is a different can of worms to get in to trying to define). One just have to work with the ways their tanks response to various factors and adjust accordingly, until you get to that matured state. Even then, different mature tanks will likely behave differently as well.

 

[therman]

I love this bit. Everyone is always searching for that magic recipe for success. But as you demonstrated, there isn't really one, aside from maturation (in itself is a different can of worms to get in to trying to define). One just have to work with the ways their tanks response to various factors and adjust accordingly, until you get to that matured state. Even then, different mature tanks will likely behave differently as well.

Exactly. And different frags of the same corals from different parts of the colony or grown in different systems can all vary in how well they acclimate to a new system. Just like anything alive that you keep, there is no guarantee anything will thrive and you can't stress out over every individual piece or it will drive you crazy and make the hobby no fun!

 

[BAUCE]

Like I said, I feed quite a bit (4 autofeeders each feeding a pellet/flake mix 3x/day) and the equivalent of at least a cube or two of DIY frozen food once a day to a copper band that won't eat dry food. I also hand feed more NLS pellets daily to a few fish in 4 other tanks in the system without auto feeders. From what I understand, corals actually may "prefer" to uptake nitrogen in the form of ammonia, so they are just using it up before it is converted to nitrite or nitrate. There is definitely a constant nitrogen input into the system from the fish, and what I would guess is about 10lbs of bristle worm, snail, and starfish biomass in the system (wildly unscientific estimate...but it is a LOT).

I started dosing nitrates to the backup tank as an experiment. Colors are definitely darker and more vivid in some corals, but growth is slower in almost everything. Whether this is a product of the nitrogen availability as ammonia vs nitrate, the lower phosphates, or just the newer system in general, I have no idea. Some corals do better, some do worse.

I had a feeling this is what was going on. Of course I wouldn't be able to explain it so precisely in an easy to understand way...

10lbs of bristle worms is a thing of nightmares ;Vomit

 

[therman]

I had a feeling this is what was going on. Of course I wouldn't be able to explain it so precisely in an easy to understand way...

10lbs of bristle worms is a thing of nightmares ;Vomit

But think of the GAMETES that are feeding your corals...

 

[dragon99]

Exactly. And different frags of the same corals from different parts of the colony or grown in different systems can all vary in how well they acclimate to a new system. Just like anything alive that you keep, there is no guarantee anything will thrive and you can't stress out over every individual piece or it will drive you crazy and make the hobby no fun!

I know this to be true but I can't help it sometimes. It's hard to see a frag struggle even when 30 others are doing great.

 

[therman]

I know this to be true but I can't help it sometimes. It's hard to see a frag struggle even when 30 others are doing great.

Same. I'm just saying how I should act, not how I do...

 

[CoralWealth]

Hey all,

I've gotten a lot of requests for system parameters from quite a few people who have gotten frags off of me lately. To make it easier I will post them here.

I have 2 systems running now, a "main" of around 850g total volume, and a "backup" of around 300g.

For the main system, it has been running in one form or another since 2006. It has been loaded with biodiversity from the start with Fiji cultured live rock, which I havent seen available in 10+ years. There are tons and tons of sponges, bristle worms of at least 3 varieties, 2-3 types of mini brittle stars, Stomatella, etc that are constantly breeding. It has a moderate fish load and 4 auto-feeders feeding NLS pellets and Formula 2 flake multiple times each day. So plenty of nutrient input however nitrates constistently read 0. I attribute this to the massive amount of fast growing coral that sucks up most of the nitrogen before it is converted to nitrate. A microbiome analysis confirmed almost no detectable nitrifying bacteria.

Here are the numbers for the main system:
Temp 77-79F
SG 1.026
KH 9.0-9.4 (I aim for the middle of this range)
NO3 0
PO4 ~0.12 ppm
Most Acropora are in the ~400 PAR range, with a few high light varieties from 500-600

The backup system is a bit different, much newer. Even though it started with 50%+ rock and water from the main system, it still has some major differences after running for 2+ years. I dose sodium nitrate solution and it consistently has lower phosphate levels. Certain tenuis especially seem to prefer these conditions, some grow about the same, and some Acropora really prefer the main system:

Numbers for the backup system:
Temp 77-78
SG 1.026
KH 9.0-9.7 (much bigger daily fluctuation, as the lights are not staggered on the different backup tanks like the main).
NO3 ~20ppm
PO4 ~0.05ppm

I've come to realize there really is no perfect middle ground for these levels, especially with some of the more "difficult" Acropora. Each species/variety seems to have different optimal ranges to grow best, and you can't hope to make them all happy in the same system without becoming really frustrated. Some varieties don't do well in either system, and I just have to be happy with what I have and not stress out over it.

Hope this is useful!

This is great, thank you for this.

Are you doing anything for trace elements or just letting water changes and calcium reactor keep up with that?

 

[therman]

This is great, thank you for this.

Are you doing anything for trace elements or just letting water changes and calcium reactor keep up with that?

I have the big Avast kalk reactors hooked up to my auto-topoff lines on both systems now. This seems to do a good job of keeping pH up.

Over the past year I have noticed my potassium getting low, first on ICP testing and then I started checking with a Salifert kit. Something happened in late winter earlier this year that severely affected my Stylophora, Vivid Confetti, Tyree Pinky the Bear, and both BC Hyperberry and UC Strawberry Shortcakes. All of them severely declined and all but a few small pieces died. Potassium was quite low, around 320ppm. I am not sure what happened exactly but I suspect a bad batch of Reef Crystals was involved. One batch I mixed up had a KH of around 5, and I didnt notice until after I did a water change and KH of the entire system dropped. Who knows what else was thrown off from something like that. A few other corals lost coloration but most were unaffected. It was quite strange.


Since then I do add a bit of KCl solution to bring it up if it is low. Every now and then I will add some iodine solution or iron if I notice my macro algae not doing well in the refugiums. This usually kick starts it again, and is completely haphazard and unscientific.

 

[CoralWealth]

I have the big Avast kalk reactors hooked up to my auto-topoff lines on both systems now. This seems to do a good job of keeping pH up.

Over the past year I have noticed my potassium getting low, first on ICP testing and then I started checking with a Salifert kit. Something happened in late winter earlier this year that severely affected my Stylophora, Vivid Confetti, Tyree Pinky the Bear, and both BC Hyperberry and UC Strawberry Shortcakes. All of them severely declined and all but a few small pieces died. Potassium was quite low, around 320ppm. I am not sure what happened exactly but I suspect a bad batch of Reef Crystals was involved. One batch I mixed up had a KH of around 5, and I didnt notice until after I did a water change and KH of the entire system dropped. Who knows what else was thrown off from something like that. A few other corals lost coloration but most were unaffected. It was quite strange.


Since then I do add a bit of KCl solution to bring it up if it is low. Every now and then I will add some iodine solution or iron if I notice my macro algae not doing well in the refugiums. This usually kick starts it again, and is completely haphazard and unscientific.

Awesome thank you! I was thinking of using kalk alongside my calcium reactor to help raise PH especially going into winter when the house is all closed up and PH seems to drop some.

what kalk do you use in your reactor?