The State of this Hobby is GARBAGE

[Jekyl]

I don't know any other pet industry that sells so many sick animals or infected products. It's so bad that every animal purchased is expected to be sick and should be pre-mediated/quarantined. Even tank bred animals often come with parasites. The quality control for aquarium life is atrocious and leaves a lot to be desired.

Dogs are actually worse. There are plenty of back yard breeders. However when animals get sick we can take them to a vet or have someone with a degree assess their issues and medicate accordingly. This hobby is a lot of throw **** at a wall and see what sticks.

 

[greetl01]

Well, sorry to say but that sound like a lot of self inflicted pain.

The fish being sick sucks but that’s what you sign up for if you buy from a retailer where you can’t inspect the livestock.
It’s basically impossible for the wholesalers to eradicate things like ich in their systems and that gets passed down the line. Same as it has been for the 20 years I’ve been in the hobby.

It sounds like you got overeager and simply added to many fish, leading to the die-off.

Algae and other pests will almost always be present in our tanks but will only run rampant if we provide the proper conditions for that to happen.

This hobby is extremely punishing towards mistakes of the keeper, that doesn’t mean the overall state of the hobby is garbage (some parts of it definitely are but not

Well, sorry to say but that sound like a lot of self inflicted pain.

The fish being sick sucks but that’s what you sign up for if you buy from a retailer where you can’t inspect the livestock.
It’s basically impossible for the wholesalers to eradicate things like ich in their systems and that gets passed down the line. Same as it has been for the 20 years I’ve been in the hobby.

It sounds like you got overeager and simply added to many fish, leading to the die-off.

Algae and other pests will almost always be present in our tanks but will only run rampant if we provide the proper conditions for that to happen.

This hobby is extremely punishing towards mistakes of the keeper, that doesn’t mean the overall state of the hobby is garbage (some parts of it definitely are but not overall).

Right but aquarist from other country keep saying how much worse the problem is here....so yeah it’s self inflicted bc we keep buying them

 

[HuduVudu]

No matter where you go there YOU are.

If you don't have a different thinking than when you left the hobby how you can you possibly get a different set of outcomes this time around.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Maybe it is time for you to re-think this.

 

[jorwill]

I do not quarantine my main display either. I feed well and have yet to lose a fish from a disease, although I haven't gotten velvet yet. However my new purple tang is and has had ich for the last 2 weeks and is slowly looking better day by day meanwhile all my other fish are fine and show no signs of it. A QT tank just is not in the books for me as no matter how well you may think you keep it clean, it is not. Things like snails and hermits come in with water from other systems and they can hold even the smallest drop of their previous systems water for weeks. I am not running a system for 76 days with just inverts in it to eventually go into my main display.

There are some fish that just can't do copper as well, and I wouldn't burn thru buckets and buckets of salt doing a TTM on them either. The only fish I have ever lost was a fuzzy dwarf lion, and that's because I just couldn't get it to eat.

As for your algae, that'll come and go as your tank matures and your nutrient levels get in check and stabilize. I've gone thru 2 different phases of algae in my display and each resolved on its own with a bit of help scrubbing the rocks down for a week and about 80 snails and some hermits.

 

[pulpfiction]

Dogs are actually worse. There are plenty of back yard breeders. However when animals get sick we can take them to a vet or have someone with a degree assess their issues and medicate accordingly. This hobby is a lot of throw **** at a wall and see what sticks.

But good dog breeders that sell 100% healthy dogs that and come with health guarantees are easy to find. With fish/aquarium livestock it's russian roulette no matter where it comes from.

 

[jorwill]

Oh and I do not buy from liveaquaria or saltwaterfish, they have unacceptable fish keeping standards in my books. And it is hit or miss on who packages your box when it ships.

For example whoever shipped my box from saltwaterfish once didn't even close the bags, so when they came in 3 of the 4 bags had no water and weren't tied or even banded. Riddle me that and how those get shipped?

 

[Jekyl]

But good dog breeders that sell 100% healthy dogs that and come with health guarantees are easy to find. With fish/aquarium livestock it's russian roulette no matter where it comes from.

There are plenty of fish breeders out there that offer quarantined fish. They are more expensive though. Same for dogs. If you want proof of bloodline and paperwork the price goes way up.

 

[elysics]

Fish can get diseases from stress in shipping, it doesn't necessarily mean that it "had it" when it was at their facility, just fyi.

Parasites/viruses/bacteria do not materialize out of thin air into a closed bag. If the fish has it when it arrives at your door, then it was either in the fish, or in the water in that bag, when it left their facility.

 

[jorwill]

But good dog breeders that sell 100% healthy dogs that and come with health guarantees are easy to find. With fish/aquarium livestock it's russian roulette no matter where it comes from.

There is a few online vendors that sell QT fish, you defiantely pay a higher premium for those fish but they are disease free usually. At least the good vendors.

 

[kenchilada]

I’ve quarantined about 20 fish now and so far I’ve had the best luck with Divers Den. Zero losses from them, well worth the premium for me. Every LFS in town has disease present in their tanks and other online vendors seem like a crapshoot.

Slow down, take a break, try DD or one of the pre-quarantined vendors such as drfish.

 

[pulpfiction]

There are plenty of fish breeders out there that offer quarantined fish. They are more expensive though. Same for dogs. If you want proof of bloodline and paperwork the price goes way up.

Buying a guaranteed healthy animal is a price worth paying and I wish I saw more of it in the aquarium industry. Not just fish, but live rock, corals, and inverts as well.

 

[JumboShrimp]

First: I enjoyed reading the OP, and the various responses/perspectives.

Second: As an avid Saturday morning cartoon-watcher from the 60’s, I wanted to proudly let the OP know that
I KNOW WHAT AN “EL-KABONG” IS!!

 

[Jekyl]

But good dog breeders that sell 100% healthy dogs that and come with health guarantees are easy to find. With fish/aquarium livestock it's russian roulette no matter where it comes from.

That's because some dogs can cost thousands of dollars. Fish are relatively cheap and viewed as expendable.

 

[pulpfiction]

That's because some dogs can cost thousands of dollars. Fish are relatively cheap and viewed as expendable.

In my opinion, it's a problem that they are seen as cheap and expendable. A cheap, badly bred dog with a lot of health problems will cost more in the long run than a well bred dog with little to no health problems. Same with any animal.

 

[HuduVudu]

In my opinion, it's a problem that they are seen as cheap and expendable. A cheap, badly bred dog with a lot of health problems will cost more in the long run than a well bred dog with little to no health problems. Same with any animal.

And still after how many years, people will still buy the cheap animal.

People gonna do what people gonna do, and the only thing that we have control over is what we are going to do. Complaining about it doesn't help us up our game and do better.

 

[brandon429]

Re fallow the tank, then go divers den

 

[pulpfiction]

And still after how many years, people will still buy the cheap animal.

People gonna do what people gonna do, and the only thing that we have control over is what we are going to do. Complaining about it doesn't help us up our game and do better.

You're getting off track from my original post. The overall quality of aquarium animals is not good. A couple fish sellers that quarantine their animals leaves a lot to be desired when trying to create a healthy tank. It's not a complaint, it's a criticism of where I see room for much improvement.

 

[Dcal]

...... TSM ....

 

[atlantean]

My LFS recently started doing 2-week quarantines for new arrivals. They’re cheaper if you buy them before quarantining is up. Obviously not a perfect QT procedure, but it’s better than nothing. Maybe worth encouraging LFS’s to do it if they have separate systems and tell them you’d be more comfortable buying from them.

 

[HuduVudu]

You're getting off track from my original post. The overall quality of aquarium animals is not good. A couple fish sellers that quarantine their animals leaves a lot to be desired when trying to create a healthy tank. It's not a complaint, it's a criticism of where I see room for much improvement.

Nope I am EXACTLY on target.

There will ALWAYS be the unscrupulous. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. Also there will be others with different needs than yours. I bought my fish from liveaquaria. I am very happy with them. I will buy again. I actually sought out liveaquaria because I am trying to skip as many medicated tanks as possible in the supply chain before the fish reaches my tank. I could pay the extra and buy the QT'ed eating fish, but for me all they are doing is hiding the loss and passing that cost onto you. No thanks, I have methods that work and will allow me to do it on my own.

This hobby hasn't much changed save for the equipment in the 25 years, and the fish aspect hasn't changed in the 35 that I have been in it.

What you are doing is trying to force the world to conform to you. You will NEVER succeed. If you want success then you will have to play by the rules of the world. If you want to flounder and be mad and complain then keep trying to force the world to be what YOU want it. Trust me enough banging your head on the world will just result in a headache and in this hobby it will result in you leaving. I have seen A LOT of people leave this hobby because they don't want to play by the rules of the game.

Re-think what you want from all of this because it requires some serious humility to stay with.