The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[MnFish1]

But with normal CUC (non specialised) we grow algae all the time as food for them.

Sincerely Lasse

Some people do . Others use fluconazole, etc. Others try to fine tune nutrients to prevent algae growth.

 

[MnFish1]

I am happy you are coming around. This isn't an issue, it is a variable that must be considered in any possible solution. No one wants anything to die in their tank when they have added it.This is why I said an imbalance in biodiversity.

I actually never disagreed with you for the most part. But I sometimes don't understand when people use fairly specific phrases like 'imbalance in biodiversity'. The person using the term knows specifically what they mean by that term but it could mean many different things to different people . Thats why I asked you.

 

[Jay Z]

Good read Paul.

I thought I was the only one that does this. When I set up my 45 I went to 6 stores for the dirtiest live rock I could find, told them not to dip it. Got almost 100lbs in my 45. Everything alive that went in the tank was floated for 5 minutes, let half the water out, added some of mine, 10 minutes, added some more of mine, then 10-15 minutes, then released. Big corals just went right in. Ive had zero issues with anything.

 

[mshonk]

Can you clarify what you mean here -I actually think the comparisons are fitting. By the way - I agree that a non-chemical / organic / natural way is probably 'better' than all of the chemicals that people tend to use. But I do not think that lack of biodiversity (or adding 'biodiversity') will cure/eliminate AEFW. I also don't dip corals - and have not seen AEFW in my tank.

The comparison of matching the reefs biodiversity to our tanks. There is far to much to match and consider. What region of the world is everything in my tank indigenous to and how to match that environment. Now there are a multitude of environments to match biodiversity to. We can not ever reach anything like that and since we can't that is why I am an advocate for manipulating it and creating a balance in combination with husbandry for success in my little piece of the ocean. Some things can be removed or at least visibly resolved like aptasia. Not saying I have a solution for AEFW but something has to eat them.

I apologize - I made a somewhat snarky comment in response to this - I misread what you wrote - I thought you said 'Obviously, genius' not Genus. The moderators deleted that post - but I wanted to explain it to you either way. I always try to be respectful - but am not always successful.

Gotcha I was wondering what happened there. But at the same rate sorry as well because that was a snarky comment that I made originally.
I am not upset with anyone in this recent bit of conversation, I have enjoyed it. It is good conversation plus text only can convey so much without the influence of interpretation.

 

[mshonk]

The person using the term knows specifically what they mean by that term but it could mean many different things to different people . Thats why I asked you.

Just said this in my last post!

 

[Subsea]

What ends up happening (in most tanks IMHO only) is that the things that end up surviving/thriving have developed a certain symbiosis - and that as a tank 'matures' biodiversity actually decreases rather than increases. Thats not to say that new things can't be added, etc - and in some sense adding new coral to an established tank is probably somewhat easier than to a tank a week old.


@MnFish1

Old Tank Syndrome is best described as lack of diversity. In forestry, this is viewed as a Climax Forest.

PS: In our reef tanks, adding coral frags certainly increases biodiversity.

Aquascaping can increase biodiversity by disrupting symbiosis.

 

[Frogger]

I thought I was the only one that does this. When I set up my 45 I went to 6 stores for the dirtiest live rock I could find, told them not to dip it. Got almost 100lbs in my 45. Everything alive that went in the tank was floated for 5 minutes, let half the water out, added some of mine, 10 minutes, added some more of mine, then 10-15 minutes, then released. Big corals just went right in. Ive had zero issues with anything.

Good luck with this method. Not sure anyone is advocating the 15 minute full tank setup on this thread.

 

[mshonk]

What ends up happening (in most tanks IMHO only) is that the things that end up surviving/thriving have developed a certain symbiosis - and that as a tank 'matures' biodiversity actually decreases rather than increases. Thats not to say that new things can't be added, etc - and in some sense adding new coral to an established tank is probably somewhat easier than to a tank a week old.


@MnFish1

Old Tank Syndrome is best described as lack of diversity. In forestry, this is viewed as a Climax Forest

That is a great point. The diversity increases until you reach a symbiosis. Wish I thought of it.

 

[Jay Z]

Good luck with this method. Not sure anyone is advocating the 15 minute full tank setup on this thread.

Sorry. Rock was setup in a day with a pair of clowns. After 2 weeks clowns were removed then I started stocking. Was not a 1 day setup/stock.

Stock is added every week or 2 depending on bio load. I'm close to complete now.

 

[MnFish1]

That is a great point. The diversity increases until you reach a symbiosis. Wish I thought of it.

My point was actually a little different. As you 'add things' you add diversity (i.e. each piece of coral you add is more diversity - along with all of the other stuff that goes along with the coral (bacteria, etc). Like you mentioned previously - adding a bunch of different things from different areas of the world means that organisms from bacteria to coral to inverts will be exposed to things they are not normally exposed to - which to me means once you are done adding fish/coral etc, everything will sort of 'fight it out' and this will lead to decreasing diversity until a symbiosis is reached. This philosophy is one of the reasons I'm not quite sure about adding new bacteria/mud, etc to a tank.

 

[MnFish1]

Sorry. Rock was setup in a day with a pair of clowns. After 2 weeks clowns were removed then I started stocking. Was not a 1 day setup/stock.

Stock is added every week or 2 depending on bio load. I'm close to complete now.

How long have you had the tank? Can you share a picture?

 

[MnFish1]

Sorry. Rock was setup in a day with a pair of clowns. After 2 weeks clowns were removed then I started stocking. Was not a 1 day setup/stock.

Stock is added every week or 2 depending on bio load. I'm close to complete now.

Sorry clicked post too quickly - I meant to ask you - what was the reason you chose to do it the way you did - was it because you thought QT was too much work? What is dirty live rock (i.e. how do you pick the rock you did)?

 

[MnFish1]

I created a Poll discussing live rock - its kind of related to this thread check it out: What is ''Live Rock'?

 

[Jay Z]

How long have you had the tank? Can you share a picture?

Pic from this morning. 2 months old. Cycled in 6 days with startsmart complete, 2 clowns, 100lbs of live rock, 40lbs of substrate. I always try to cram as much as I can, and afford off the get go. After that its just small changes, moving things around. Just put another 5 pieces in and some more inverts about a hour ago. 3-4" gap behind the rock and back wall, my 3rd mp10 is back their to keep it from being a dead area, more low flow.
I kind of add what I feel the tank can handle bio load wise in stages.

85% of what you can see was done by week 3, fish stock at week 4 and 5. Now I add on spot specific areas.

We have a 5-6 privately owned fish stores around, some fancy and clean as can be, some that look like condemned buildings, dirty and smelly when you go in, but some awesome stuff in the big tanks. 20 year old rocks that have been in a aquarium from god knows where, actual coral pieces with things growing all over them. I consider dirty live rock a piece with so much stuff on it, they don't even know what to call it and sell it by the pound. Just a rock with stuff growing everywhere on it. If I see a tank thats on it own filters and see some stuff growing I like, I'll get something from it, or ask them to give her a quick stir and bag me up some water. Get a lot of funny looks on that one.

Been doing it this way since I was 15, old guy who mentored me when I started did it like this. Guess its kind of like something we do that seems weird to others, but it is normal to us because a grand parent taught it. He always said "Throw it all in der, it'll work itself out".

I personally want my tank exposed to everything random I can get in it. Don't get me wrong, I don't buy sick fish, dismal looking corals, or rock and "hope" it grows. I will buy a skinny lethargic fish if I feel it can be can be saved.

I'm not going to say my method is the right one or will work for everyone, but Ive always had success doing it like this. When a fish gets to big, he gets replaced with a smaller one, when coral or stuff on the rocks get to big, they get given away and replaced with new. I like it full of life and ever changing. If it always stays the same, why not just take a picture and sell the tank. Heck I even rotate corals and such every 2-3 weeks looking for that perfect spot.

 

[Lasse]

Not saying I have a solution for AEFW but something has to eat them

There is some claims that some pipefish can eat them. I do not know if all do it but some says Corythoichthys intestinalis will eat them. I have bring in acropora from known AEFW infected tanks into my aquarium with two other types of pipefish and a lot of wrasses. I have not seen any problems in my tank but that is no evidence because I do not know if my speciements was effected or not.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[mshonk]

I pray I never have to find out if this is true. I have no issues in my tank as well.

 

[MnFish1]

Pic from this morning. 2 months old. Cycled in 6 days with startsmart complete, 2 clowns, 100lbs of live rock, 40lbs of substrate. I always try to cram as much as I can, and afford off the get go. After that its just small changes, moving things around. Just put another 5 pieces in and some more inverts about a hour ago. 3-4" gap behind the rock and back wall, my 3rd mp10 is back their to keep it from being a dead area, more low flow.
I kind of add what I feel the tank can handle bio load wise in stages.

85% of what you can see was done by week 3, fish stock at week 4 and 5. Now I add on spot specific areas.

We have a 5-6 privately owned fish stores around, some fancy and clean as can be, some that look like condemned buildings, dirty and smelly when you go in, but some awesome stuff in the big tanks. 20 year old rocks that have been in a aquarium from god knows where, actual coral pieces with things growing all over them. I consider dirty live rock a piece with so much stuff on it, they don't even know what to call it and sell it by the pound. Just a rock with stuff growing everywhere on it. If I see a tank thats on it own filters and see some stuff growing I like, I'll get something from it, or ask them to give her a quick stir and bag me up some water. Get a lot of funny looks on that one.

Been doing it this way since I was 15, old guy who mentored me when I started did it like this. Guess its kind of like something we do that seems weird to others, but it is normal to us because a grand parent taught it. He always said "Throw it all in der, it'll work itself out".

I personally want my tank exposed to everything random I can get in it. Don't get me wrong, I don't buy sick fish, dismal looking corals, or rock and "hope" it grows. I will buy a skinny lethargic fish if I feel it can be can be saved.

I'm not going to say my method is the right one or will work for everyone, but Ive always had success doing it like this. When a fish gets to big, he gets replaced with a smaller one, when coral or stuff on the rocks get to big, they get given away and replaced with new. I like it full of life and ever changing. If it always stays the same, why not just take a picture and sell the tank. Heck I even rotate corals and such every 2-3 weeks looking for that perfect spot.

View attachment 988562

Nice tank. Some people are still cycling their tanks at 2 months

 

[MnFish1]

Pic from this morning. 2 months old. Cycled in 6 days with startsmart complete, 2 clowns, 100lbs of live rock, 40lbs of substrate. I always try to cram as much as I can, and afford off the get go. After that its just small changes, moving things around. Just put another 5 pieces in and some more inverts about a hour ago. 3-4" gap behind the rock and back wall, my 3rd mp10 is back their to keep it from being a dead area, more low flow.
I kind of add what I feel the tank can handle bio load wise in stages.

85% of what you can see was done by week 3, fish stock at week 4 and 5. Now I add on spot specific areas.

We have a 5-6 privately owned fish stores around, some fancy and clean as can be, some that look like condemned buildings, dirty and smelly when you go in, but some awesome stuff in the big tanks. 20 year old rocks that have been in a aquarium from god knows where, actual coral pieces with things growing all over them. I consider dirty live rock a piece with so much stuff on it, they don't even know what to call it and sell it by the pound. Just a rock with stuff growing everywhere on it. If I see a tank thats on it own filters and see some stuff growing I like, I'll get something from it, or ask them to give her a quick stir and bag me up some water. Get a lot of funny looks on that one.

Been doing it this way since I was 15, old guy who mentored me when I started did it like this. Guess its kind of like something we do that seems weird to others, but it is normal to us because a grand parent taught it. He always said "Throw it all in der, it'll work itself out".

I personally want my tank exposed to everything random I can get in it. Don't get me wrong, I don't buy sick fish, dismal looking corals, or rock and "hope" it grows. I will buy a skinny lethargic fish if I feel it can be can be saved.

I'm not going to say my method is the right one or will work for everyone, but Ive always had success doing it like this. When a fish gets to big, he gets replaced with a smaller one, when coral or stuff on the rocks get to big, they get given away and replaced with new. I like it full of life and ever changing. If it always stays the same, why not just take a picture and sell the tank. Heck I even rotate corals and such every 2-3 weeks looking for that perfect spot.

View attachment 988562

Nice tank. Some people are still cycling their tanks at 2 months

 

[William Buchanan]

My 14 fish are all healthy, I have a fully loaded reef tank 3 triggers A CLOWN, Sargassum and bluejaw, 2 clowns tomato and gold strip maroon, 4 tangs naso, yellow, purple and hippo, green coris wrasse, some big damsel with yellowish tails, bicolor blenny, squirrel fish and a 3 year old banggai cardinal

Amazing, no problems out of the Clown Trigger?

 

[HB AL]

Amazing, no problems out of the Clown Trigger?

Zero problems, I do have a lot of rock so I’m sure that’s why I get away with the quiver of different fish I have without any issues. I had been contemplating adding a clown to my reef for over a couple years, but I made a post and others where having no issues. So I traded in to my lfs my gold spot rabbit since I knew I was pretty much overstocked on fish for my size tank (I love fish more than corals) for the clown trigger around 5 months ago. Worked out good especially since it was an even trade in $. I also love blue line triggers and might do it in the future but that might be a little dicey since they are a little more aggressive but might work with a very small one, triggers are my favorite fish, love there personality.