The ONE thing your reef needs to be successful...

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

OP
OP
uniquecorals

uniquecorals

UniqueCorals
View Badges
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
13,377
Reaction score
11,088
Location
Los Angeles
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Going to play devil's advocate a bit here... Not only is stability not that ONE thing. It's not even all that important and has been blown out of proportion as to how important it is to success in this hobby for years...

Stable water temp? Not very important, I've watched my temps swing like mad, randomly and dramatically at times. I've done large water changes while dropping the tank temp by 5f while not seeing a single sign of stress. There's nothing stable about water temps in the natural environment for these corals. It is important that they swing within a range though.

Alkalinity... I see alkalinity swings get blamed for a lot of stress and problems in corals. When it happens in an otherwise healthy system it often results in no changes, for better or worse, and no outward signs of stress in corals.

Magnesium, I've boosted it 800+ PPM in a matter of seconds and the corals didn't even react. THe same goes for bumping calcium by bover 100ppm.

Could go on and on, and the examples above are from tanks where corals have fast growth and very good color.

Hi Ike,

Very good points, and I appreciate the feedback. I agree that in a well-managed system, uber stability may not play as critical a role as some people think. However, in many tanks, multiple environmental parameters are subject to fluctuations, and this is a recipe for problems. I will have to respectfully disagree about the alkalinity issue not being a problem...We've seen this first hand in our facility on several occasions be a direct cause of issues, such as color loss, etc. Yes, alkalinity drops may accompany other factors, but it is definitely an issue for many systems. That being said, you're right pointing out that we can't implicate lack of stability for every problem in our reefs. However, it's a very, very, primary factor in success. Yes, corals can "tolerate" a lot of abuse and variation, and it can be argued that some reef systems in the wild undergo tremendous temperature, etc. shifts in the course of a day during tidal swings, etc. However, these are "open" systems with the benefits of such. A reef tank is by definition a closed system, and chemical and other environmental issues have much farther reaching implications than in the wild.

Sure, many corals can recover nicely from fluctuations, and can even tolerate some. This does not, IMHO mean that we should accept unstable parameters or encourage lax husbandry protocols. I can recover nicely from being spun at a high speed on an amusement park ride, but that doesn't mean that there won't be some stress in the longer term coming from the experience if it happens with some degree of regularity. Probably not the greatest analogy, but you get what I mean.

In the end, obsession over any ONE thing is not a healthy approach to reef keeping. Obsession over providing a stable, well-managed environment IS a healthy approach, IMHO. That's whey we have a marketplace crowded with tons of cool equipment, additives, etc...To quote my friend and local SoCal reef guru, Greg Carroll, "StabilityPromotesSuccess." I can't really argue against that.

-Scott
 

Triggreef

Zoa Addict
View Badges
Joined
Apr 11, 2014
Messages
4,929
Reaction score
2,814
Location
East Hampton, CT
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
What kind of coral? I've had some big alk swings, acros in general just don't handle that well. Some so while others can rtn over night. If I had a tank full of joe the coral, & red planet, I wouldn't worry about much of anything. On the other hand, if your trying your hand at purple monster & red Dragon, I might say you need to be a bit more careful.
 

Ike

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
1,020
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Ike gotta disagree on the alk part anytime I've had lg swing sps get very angry

In a low nutrient tank it doesn't seem to matter much to them as long as it stays below a certain level. I've had unintended swings as low at 5 dKH, while that's dangerous and I don't suggest it, the inhabitants were unphased. The same goes for bumping it 2.5 dKH up to 7.5-8 rather quickly. Want to talk about something far more important than having an alkalinity spike, its not allowing your PH to crash... I think so much of what people experience negatively from alkalinity spikes stems from a compound of problems. In particular and in recent years, people driving their nutrients so low that they can't handle alkalinity spikes and alkalinity over certain levels. This is a newer phenomenon and has only come to be since people started carbon dosing and using more effective modern protein skimmers.

All that said, stability with alkalinity is something to strive for and does seem to help promote coral health. However, in recent years it has become that easy and default answer for why something isn't happy or is dying. Some years ago, and somewhat still today, temp swings were always to blame, and falsely so. If your corals are dying or struggling due to some alkalinity swings, I say there are more problems than just the alkalinity spike.

Lastly, I would argue vehemently that having proper levels in a proper range surpasses stability every time. How many people have super stable tanks that don't do well only to later find out that their salinity was way off because they bought that extra coral instead of investing in an accurate refractometer.
 
Last edited:

hart24601

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 18, 2014
Messages
6,616
Reaction score
6,688
Location
Iowa
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
In a low nutrient tank it doesn't seem to matter much to them as long as it stays below a certain level. I've had unintended swings as low at 5 dKH, while that's dangerous and I don't suggest it, the inhabitants were unphased. The same goes for bumping it 2.5 dKH up to 7.5-8 rather quickly. Want to talk about something far more important than having an alkalinity spike, its not allowing your PH to crash... I think so much of what people experience negatively from alkalinity spikes stems from a compound of problems. In particular and in recent years, people driving their nutrients so low that they can't handle alkalinity spikes and alkalinity over certain levels. This is a newer phenomenon and has only come to be since people started carbon dosing and using more effective modern protein skimmers.

All that said, stability with alkalinity is something to strive for and does seem to help promote coral health. However, in recent years it has become that easy and default answer for why something isn't happy or is dying. Some years ago, and somewhat still today, temp swings were always to blame, and falsely so. If your corals are dying or struggling due to some alkalinity swings, I say there are more problems than just the alkalinity spike.

Lastly, I would argue vehemently that having proper levels in a proper range surpasses stability every time. How many people have super stable tanks that don't do well only to later find out that their salinity was way off because they bought that extra coral instead of investing in an accurate refractometer.

Wow. Great reply. I feel the same but didn't say it that well!
 

Nano sapiens

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
2,496
Reaction score
3,693
Location
East Bay, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Within limits, I agree with Ike. In a mature, stable system, variences within acceptable ranges are *usually* well tolerated.

On the other hand, for the beginning aquarist (who is just getting a handle on all this) with a young system, Scott is right on base since the 'stability' mantra is very appropriate.

Ralph -
 
OP
OP
uniquecorals

uniquecorals

UniqueCorals
View Badges
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
13,377
Reaction score
11,088
Location
Los Angeles
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Excellent points by all and well thought out..I think it's safe to say that "Stability within a range" is an admirable goal for reefers in most circumstances...

-Scott
 

prsnlty

Jackie
View Badges
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
7,541
Reaction score
5,235
Location
Citrus Co, Florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I agree with stability. I really messed up by changing my salt. I now have some corals that were thriving for a long time that are fading or melting. It is the ONLY thing I changed. Great write up!
 

Nano sapiens

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
2,496
Reaction score
3,693
Location
East Bay, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I agree with stability. I really messed up by changing my salt. I now have some corals that were thriving for a long time that are fading or melting. It is the ONLY thing I changed. Great write up!

Try this. When changing salt, mix some of the new in with the old at ~25% new/75% old. After a couple water changes use 50%/50%. A couple more, then mix at 75% salt/25% old. Couple more then go to 100% new salt. Since this method is more gradual, it helps to keep organiism stress down to a minimum.

I've changed salt 3 times on my tank using this method and had no isues whatsoever :)

Ralph -
 
Last edited:

prsnlty

Jackie
View Badges
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
7,541
Reaction score
5,235
Location
Citrus Co, Florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thank you Ralph :D I may do that for sure. I was changing to red sea pro from reef crystals. I had it in reverse, 25% rc and 75 rsp. Maybe more.. it was 1 bag rc to a 5g bucket of rsp.
 

Big E

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
2,350
Reaction score
3,858
Location
Willoughby, OH
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Patience and observation..........these really lead to consistency.

Observation is an acquired skill.............a camera can be very helpful for comparing things a month apart.

Testing.........other than alk & calc that's about all that's needed.
 

HAVE YOU EVER KEPT A RARE/UNCOMMON FISH, CORAL, OR INVERT? SHOW IT OFF IN THE THREAD!

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
Back
Top