The Butterfly Lover's Thread

[Raul-7]

The question is, are they Hawaiian endemic?

Yes; unfortunately for us.

 

[litsoh]

Tyga Shark the Threadfin and Notorious F.I.N. the Yellow Longnose

 

[Fishfreak2009]

How about a little brine shrimp? Even eating a bit from the water column now.

 

[litsoh]

Oddly enough my butterflies have no problem eating from the water column. I feel like my yellow longnose actually prefers it given how he cruises around grabbing anything and everything that floats by

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Oddly enough my butterflies have no problem eating from the water column. I feel like my yellow longnose actually prefers it given how he cruises around grabbing anything and everything that floats by

Most of mine are the same, but for the lunulatus butterfly in the video, it is quite the accomplishment. This species is an obligate corallivore in the wild, not a generalist feeder like a longnose or a lot of other butterflies.

 

[Raul-7]

Most of mine are the same, but for the lunulatus butterfly in the video, it is quite the accomplishment. This species is an obligate corallivore in the wild, not a generalist feeder like a longnose or a lot of other butterflies.

I cannot see the video.

 

[LaloJ]

About 50% lived past 1 year. Finding initially healthy specimens is extremely important. Unfortunately butterflies are prone to bullying by more aggressive fish (most other FOWLR fish), prone to ich, velvet, flukes, uronema, and secondary bacterial infections due to trauma from shipping. Unfortunately a LOT of butterflies arrive with damaged mouths and those are basically doomed.

I think part of the problem with butterflies is also due to their high metabolism. Few people feed them frequently enough, and often times they arrive so skinny/starved from shipping and sitting unfed throughout the whole collection and shipping process that they are doomed from the day they get to the home aquarium. If you get a healthy butterfly, try to feed it 3x daily or more, as these are fish that eat all day long in the wild. This is why most of my angels, tangs, butterflies (really almost all my reef fish) are fed 4-6x daily.

Butterflies are also still commonly collected with cyanide (one of the most commonly collected families of fish using this method), and those are also usually doomed. Buying fat butterflies that are at least interested in food, with known collection locale (to avoid areas that still commonly use cyanide), and without any obvious signs of trauma or disease, then quarantining for at least 30 days (both to eliminate risk of disease and to train onto prepared foods/acclimate to captive life), leads to the highest chances of success in my opinion.

I quarantine mine with plenty of rock to pick at, and lots of food options fed throughout the day (mysis, brine, clam on the half shell, nori, NLS pellets, rods, frozen fish eggs, homemade frozen blend, live Caulerpa, and masstick). I usually keep other fish that eat well but are not overly aggressive or pushy around food in with them to help train them as well (mollies and cardinals work really well for this). All my butterflies now go through 30 days of cupramine, 3 treatments of praziquantel, at least 7 days of metronidazole, and 5 days of ruby reef rally pro, along with a 5 minute freshwater bath before entering into quarantine.

Are you referring to the red marks on their mouths? If so, why are they condemned from the beginning? I understand that they are very prone to having this type of lesions, and red marks on the edge of the dorsal fins that should be treated well with nitrofurazone, and unfortunately many of them look like this when they are available. I have not tried coralivore butterflies for years, I live in Mexico and the quality of the fish is far from good, and with these species of fish long term success is quite complicated.

 

[Asfur]

Hi, this is my 5000 lt outdoor saltwater pond. Running about end of 2020 when covid outbreak. It is used to be a koi pond, but because i got bored with koi and thinking of convert the pond for saltwater fishes. I kept saltwater fish (FOWLR) and not reef tank since 90's in the aquarium.
It comes with some failure for the first year, because this is outdoor, so it got expose from rain directly, and also got a strike from uronema diseases, so i lost almost all fish that are healthy before.
But after some trial and clean all the pond and also dispose all the LR, now it is seem to be handle nice and smooth.
It is not a nice pond actually, it doesn't have coraline eventhough it is all LR. I don't want to supply with supplement, because it will drain may pocket .
So, i'm focus on keeping the fish and hoping they will live healthy for many many years.
And because this is BF's thread, here is my BF's list :
1. Chaetodon Auriga kept from small size after a year plus it grows to about medium size and growth the long elongated upper fins.
2. Chaetodon ephippium also kept from small size and now it grows to medium size after 1,5 years.
3. Chaetodon Lineolatus kept from small size and after 1,5 years itu grows also to medium size.
4.Chaetodon Racoon, got it already medium and after 2 years it grows only a little bit.
5. Chaetodon Melannotus, got it medium and after 1,5 years this one also grows only a bit.
6. Chaetodon Adiergastos, got it about small to medium and after 1,5 years, it grows to medium size.
7. Chaetodon Bennet, got it medium size and amazingly it already live more than a year, eating very good with pellets, frozen food and open mussels. I have it another 1 that i bought 2 months ago, this one also eating very well.
8. Spot Band Butterflyfish under a year.
9. Forcipiger longirostris under a year.
10. Chelmon Rostratus under a year.
11. 2 - Chaetodon Tinkery, 1 is bigger than the other and just a few months in the pond.
12. Chaetodon Unimaculatus a few months
13. Gunther Butterflyfish, just got it 2 weeks ago, a very small size, and still in the filtration chamber.

And the Moorish, i have 2 actually. This one is big size, the other one is small size living in the filtration chamber. I got the smaller one maybe one or two months earlier before i got the bigger one, and at first both of them live peacefully. But after few months the bigger one start to harrash the small one until it luckily jump in the overflow pipe and drain to the filter chamber, otherwise it will die. Both of them are already more than a year in the pond.
And for one that think Moorish Idol is a shoaling or shcooling fish, don't think about it. Once the bigger one got settle and dominated the tank/pond, it will kill the smaller one.
Now, without the presence other Moorish, it harrash other BF's when hand feeding. It even harrash my big regal angelfish and emperor angelfish.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Are you referring to the red marks on their mouths? If so, why are they condemned from the beginning? I understand that they are very prone to having this type of lesions, and red marks on the edge of the dorsal fins that should be treated well with nitrofurazone, and unfortunately many of them look like this when they are available. I have not tried coralivore butterflies for years, I live in Mexico and the quality of the fish is far from good, and with these species of fish long term success is quite complicated.

No, I'm referring to butterflies with broken jaws or missing chunks of their jaws. It seems relatively common here in Michigan unfortunately. Those fish always slowly waste away.

Here are a few photos off google to show what I mean. I've seen this in Forcipiger, Chelmon, and Chaetodon species still listed for sale at some of my LFS.

 

[LaloJ]

No, I'm referring to butterflies with broken jaws or missing chunks of their jaws. It seems relatively common here in Michigan unfortunately. Those fish always slowly waste away.

Here are a few photos off google to show what I mean. I've seen this in Forcipiger, Chelmon, and Chaetodon species still listed for sale at some of my LFS.

You are right to classify these fish as condemned, it's not like a fin that can regenerate, have you had cases of butterflies with red lines or marks? They mainly appear on the edge of the dorsal fin and in the mouth, sometimes also on the caudal peduncle. If so, how have you treated them? Maybe I missed it but what is your quarantine method?

 

[Fishfreak2009]

You are right to classify these fish as condemned, it's not like a fin that can regenerate, have you had cases of butterflies with red lines or marks? They mainly appear on the edge of the dorsal fin and in the mouth, sometimes also on the caudal peduncle. If so, how have you treated them? Maybe I missed it but what is your quarantine method?

I quarantine with 30 days of cupramine, 3 doses of praziquantel at 7 day intervals, 7 days of Metronidazole, and a 90 minute ruby reef rally pro bath before entering into the quarantine system. I also do freshwater baths once weekly. Usually fish spend between 40-60 days in quarantine. Once in a blue moon, this is a bit different, but usually only for fish like eels. I'll also use kanaplex or a similar antibiotic if I notice a bacterial infection.

I usually pass on butterflies showing any redness at all, as septicemia is not the most easily treated. If it occurs in my fish during quarantine, ruby reef rally pro is dosed daily as a disinfectant, and an antibiotic like kanaplex is dosed per manufacturer instructions.

As sad as it is to say, a fish that doesn't make it through my quarantine protocol probably wasn't going to make it anyways in the long run, and I know that the fish that do make it through are healthy and won't spread disease to my other fish. I've used this method without issue even for sensitive fish like butterflies, the moorish idol, anthias, lots of different wrasses, and more.

 

[Asfur]

This is pic taken when i hand feed them with DIY frozen fish food. Most of the BF's i've keep is coming from the easy to medium care only, with one exception that i assume or maybe it just now are keepable species under correct circumstances, it is the Eclipse BF's/Chaetodon Bennetti.
I got mine at good medium size and fat condition when i bought him at around mid 2022, don't eat for a few days, but then start to compete with other when i gave open mussels. Then it don't takes long for him to start eating on my DIY frozen fish food and pellets.
Later i bought a new Eclipse BF's about 2 months ago, and he's also in good condition till today, this Eclipse BF's is not aggresive toward same species and other members, in fact this species is rather in the victim side rather than a bullying species.

 

[Raul-7]

Love those wrought-iron butterfly's!



Credit to @Hedgedrew

 

[i cant think]

Love those wrought-iron butterfly's!



Credit to @Hedgedrew

That’s probably the one butterfly I don’t see why there’s so much hype around.

 

[Raul-7]

That’s probably the one butterfly I don’t see why there’s so much hype around.

They look really unique and other worldly (hence the common name). Can easily be the centerpiece fish in any large aquarium.

 

[Big E]

They look really unique and other worldly (hence the common name). Can easily be the centerpiece fish in any large aquarium.

This is one of those fish you need to see in person to appreciate. It reminds me of my Mulleri Copperband I had for many years. They are beautiful in person, great personality, live a lot longer than common CBB and hard to come by. They are common in Australia but seldom become available here as they aren't requested.

Pics never do them justice.............many of the colors are muted in a picture. Every time someone would come over my Muellers was always pointed out and asked what fish that is because it's so striking.

 

[Devaji]

love this thread. been thinking of a butterfly FOWLR for many years. got a nice 200.275 now i am 2nd guessing if i want to try BF or not.

 

[LaloJ]

love this thread. been thinking of a butterfly FOWLR for many years. got a nice 200.275 now i am 2nd guessing if i want to try BF or not.

Same here, I have thought about a FOWLR tank with butterflies but the fact of obtaining them in a sometimes compromised state of health stops me a little. The larger the housing tank the better, angelfishes and butterflies are the most beautiful fish but terribly annoying and aggressive towards each other when they are not comfortable inside the tank.

 

[Devaji]

About 50% lived past 1 year. Finding initially healthy specimens is extremely important. Unfortunately butterflies are prone to bullying by more aggressive fish (most other FOWLR fish), prone to ich, velvet, flukes, uronema, and secondary bacterial infections due to trauma from shipping. Unfortunately a LOT of butterflies arrive with damaged mouths and those are basically doomed.

I think part of the problem with butterflies is also due to their high metabolism. Few people feed them frequently enough, and often times they arrive so skinny/starved from shipping and sitting unfed throughout the whole collection and shipping process that they are doomed from the day they get to the home aquarium. If you get a healthy butterfly, try to feed it 3x daily or more, as these are fish that eat all day long in the wild. This is why most of my angels, tangs, butterflies (really almost all my reef fish) are fed 4-6x daily.

Butterflies are also still commonly collected with cyanide (one of the most commonly collected families of fish using this method), and those are also usually doomed. Buying fat butterflies that are at least interested in food, with known collection locale (to avoid areas that still commonly use cyanide), and without any obvious signs of trauma or disease, then quarantining for at least 30 days (both to eliminate risk of disease and to train onto prepared foods/acclimate to captive life), leads to the highest chances of success in my opinion.

I quarantine mine with plenty of rock to pick at, and lots of food options fed throughout the day (mysis, brine, clam on the half shell, nori, NLS pellets, rods, frozen fish eggs, homemade frozen blend, live Caulerpa, and masstick). I usually keep other fish that eat well but are not overly aggressive or pushy around food in with them to help train them as well (mollies and cardinals work really well for this). All my butterflies now go through 30 days of cupramine, 3 treatments of praziquantel, at least 7 days of metronidazole, and 5 days of ruby reef rally pro, along with a 5 minute freshwater bath before entering into quarantine.

man after reading this I am rethinking my peaceful FOWLR of angels and butterflies.
prob. have my fish QTed for me from a well know professional.

would you think the "easier "butterflies handle Qt and shipping OK?

 

[Fishfreak2009]

man after reading this I am rethinking my peaceful FOWLR of angels and butterflies.
prob. have my fish QTed for me from a well know professional.

would you think the "easier "butterflies handle Qt and shipping OK?

Honestly a lot of the "easier" butterflies seem to arrive in worse shape. I think less care is put into every aspect of collection and transport since they are not worth as much.

I actually lost the saddleback as well 2 days ago. Atrophy of the kidneys and retention of bright coloration more than 24 hrs after death (which leads me to the conclusion it was cyanide collected). It lasted roughly 22 days, which fits well with the timeline for a cyanide collected fish that was transshipped and did not sit at a wholesaler.