Tang bumps Only under blue light

[Gman6766]

Looking for some input here. I have a hybrid achilles tang that completed QT about 3 weeks ago. Hybrid TTM with formalin bath on transfer days. Eating aggressively and healthy. Today while putting him in acclimation box in my display I noticed a texture evenly throughout his body almost like sandpaper but colorless. I removed him from the acclimation box immediately to examine in a clear specimen container under white light and I couldn't see anything. When I turned the white light off and used a blue frag light I could see the bumps but only when looking right down the fish at just the right angle. He is now back in unmedicated QT tank. I know hard without pics but l I cannot capture it on my camera with the blue light and can't see it at any angle in white light. I know would be helpful but an ideas of what may be going on would be appreciated.

 

[KrisReef]

If it is evenly distributed on the entire body surface then I think you are describing the fishes scales? Ctenoid, if I remember the term correctly? I’m hoping that is what you mean.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Looking for some input here. I have a hybrid achilles tang that completed QT about 3 weeks ago. Hybrid TTM with formalin bath on transfer days. Eating aggressively and healthy. Today while putting him in acclimation box in my display I noticed a texture evenly throughout his body almost like sandpaper but colorless. I removed him from the acclimation box immediately to examine in a clear specimen container under white light and I couldn't see anything. When I turned the white light off and used a blue frag light I could see the bumps but only when looking right down the fish at just the right angle. He is now back in unmedicated QT tank. I know hard without pics but l I cannot capture it on my camera with the blue light and can't see it at any angle in white light. I know would be helpful but an ideas of what may be going on would be appreciated.

What was the concentration and time of formalin that you used? How many baths did the fish get total?

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looking for some input here. I have a hybrid achilles tang that completed QT about 3 weeks ago. Hybrid TTM with formalin bath on transfer days. Eating aggressively and healthy. Today while putting him in acclimation box in my display I noticed a texture evenly throughout his body almost like sandpaper but colorless. I removed him from the acclimation box immediately to examine in a clear specimen container under white light and I couldn't see anything. When I turned the white light off and used a blue frag light I could see the bumps but only when looking right down the fish at just the right angle. He is now back in unmedicated QT tank. I know hard without pics but l I cannot capture it on my camera with the blue light and can't see it at any angle in white light. I know would be helpful but an ideas of what may be going on would be appreciated.

Please post pics and even video under white light intensity for positive identification

 

[Gman6766]

What was the concentration and time of formalin that you used? How many baths did the fish get total?

Jay

He had som issues durring qt so we started the clock over one time so he had gone through 8 formalin baths. 1ml per gallon for 35 mins each bath. The formalin I use is 37%. Attached pic of what I used

 

[Gman6766]

Please post pics and even video under white light intensity for positive identification

This pic is from last week he looks the same now under whites. But I will get a updated pic today when I get home from work

 

[vetteguy53081]

This pic is from last week he looks the same now under whites. But I will get a updated pic today when I get home from work

Sorry to say but pics are distant of fish and while I see a couple of bumps- cant tell if lympho, mucus cones or other. Are you able to take a closer video via You tube and post ?
Also for formaldehyde- how are you applying it to tank? I would bot exceed 2 drops per gallon

 

[Jay Hemdal]

He had som issues durring qt so we started the clock over one time so he had gone through 8 formalin baths. 1ml per gallon for 35 mins each bath. The formalin I use is 37%. Attached pic of what I used

Ugh - that treatment is all over the Internet, but it is WAY too strong for fish at tropical temperatures. That equates to 250 ppm. The highest you should ever dose tropical fish at is 167 ppm (as per Herwig, Noga, etc.). That 250 value is only used when treating fish below 50 F. The saving grace here is that you used 30 minutes instead of the normal 60. 167 ppm can be used once every 24 hours, but the general thought is not to use it more than 3x in a row.

In any event, where I was going with this is that turbellarian worms (that cause black ich) don't show as black spots on dark colored fish, they just show as bumps. However, with the history of these formalin dips, I think those would have gotten nuked, so we can rule that out.

If you are not just seeing the ctenoid scales that @KrisReef mentioned, the next most likely issue are digenean skin flukes. These are deep-seated and formalin won't remove them. However, they have a complicated life cycle (usually: snail-fish-bird) so they will not reproduce in aquariums, and will eventually die out.

Jay

 

[Gman6766]

Ugh - that treatment is all over the Internet, but it is WAY too strong for fish at tropical temperatures. That equates to 250 ppm. The highest you should ever dose tropical fish at is 167 ppm (as per Herwig, Noga, etc.). That 250 value is only used when treating fish below 50 F. The saving grace here is that you used 30 minutes instead of the normal 60. 167 ppm can be used once every 24 hours, but the general thought is not to use it more than 3x in a row.

In any event, where I was going with this is that turbellarian worms (that cause black ich) don't show as black spots on dark colored fish, they just show as bumps. However, with the history of these formalin dips, I think those would have gotten nuked, so we can rule that out.

If you are not just seeing the ctenoid scales that @KrisReef mentioned, the next most likely issue are digenean skin flukes. These are deep-seated and formalin won't remove them. However, they have a complicated life cycle (usually: snail-fish-bird) so they will not reproduce in aquariums, and will eventually die out.

Jay

Would fresh water dip help narrow anything down? I ha e looked up pics and videos od the things you mentioned and none of them look like this or atleast the ones i saw. I am on my way home now and I will be taking video for everyone. Will see if able to show, it's hard to see even by eye unless just the right angle and I was only able to notice in under blues still need just the right angle and close.

 

[KrisReef]

Would fresh water dip help narrow anything down? I ha e looked up pics and videos od the things you mentioned and none of them look like this or atleast the ones i saw. I am on my way home now and I will be taking video for everyone. Will see if able to show, it's hard to see even by eye unless just the right angle and I was only able to notice in under blues still need just the right angle and close.

I think you maybe stressing out over a healthy fish? I've done this too so don't feel too bad but you need to stop it if that's what is going on. Look carefully at the locations on the fish. If they appear all in the same place on the scale then it isn't very likely to be a problem. Hope this helps!

That formalin dip is what people use for embalming and I think you may have nearly killed the specimen trying to save it.

Have mercy, and be safe.

 

[Gman6766]

Ok so much clearer today. Never seen it like this before under whites. Here are a few pics

 

[Gman6766]

Sorry to say but pics are distant of fish and while I see a couple of bumps- cant tell if lympho, mucus cones or other. Are you able to take a closer video via You tube and post ?
Also for formaldehyde- how are you applying it to tank? I would bot exceed 2 drops per gallon

Pics posted. The formalin bath consisted of a clear plastic bin with 3 gallons of fresh saltwater, 2 air stones, 1 mil per gallon. For 30 mins

 

[KrisReef]

@vetteguy53081 , @Jay Hemdal - Now I see a problem. Bummer.

 

[Gman6766]

Pics posted. The formalin bath consisted of a clear plastic bin with 3 gallons of fresh saltwater, 2 air stones, 1 mil per gallon. For 30 mins

Every three days durring a tank transfer

 

[Gman6766]

 

[vetteguy53081]

These appear to be mucus cones associated with marine ich and fish will need to be quarantined and treated with
Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Pics posted. The formalin bath consisted of a clear plastic bin with 3 gallons of fresh saltwater, 2 air stones, 1 mil per gallon. For 30 mins

In the future, , , , its 1ml per 10 gallons - not per gallon

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Would fresh water dip help narrow anything down? I ha e looked up pics and videos od the things you mentioned and none of them look like this or atleast the ones i saw. I am on my way home now and I will be taking video for everyone. Will see if able to show, it's hard to see even by eye unless just the right angle and I was only able to notice in under blues still need just the right angle and close.

FW dips remove fewer parasites than high dose formalin does, so I don’t see any benefit for doing that, the formalin would have worked better if these are parasites and are close enough to the skin’s surface to be removed.
Jay

 

[Gman6766]

In the future, , , , its 1ml per 10 gallons - not per gallon

I will be sure to make that correction in future. He is in qt tank. And we will be starting copper regiment you suggested. Thank you for your help. I appreciate everybody's experience and time.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok so much clearer today. Never seen it like this before under whites. Here are a few pics

These are more likely protozoans - if there is rapid breathing, it would be velvet. If the fish is still eating and not breathing fast, there are types of ich and relatives that can look like this.
Has the fish gone through copper? If it were my fish, I would run it through a course of coppersafe.
Jay