Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

[Ento-Reefer]

4FordFamily....ich isnt a problem really in the tank. First Powder blue came down with it but since added 50w UV sterilizer which I ran 24/7 for a bout a month and half then switched it on separate 12 hr cycle from my refugium UV light after I started my Triton method over the holidays. Cannot remove and treat all fish for ich...too many and do not have the QT space for that given tank size 210g if I wanted to. That isn't feasible in my case thus why I QT almost 90% of all new fish or have LFS do so.

Ah understand the tank boss shift explanation and makes sense....so I just tried another evolution of that. Found and added a large Powder Blue Tang about 5-6" who is now the larges acanthrus in the tank. While the clown tang who is about 3 iches and much smaller made a few dashes at him day one after I released him from the acclimation box (acrylic clear with holes for flow- used and put PBT in DT in this for 36 hrs after putting him in the DT with 30hrs lights out then 6 hrs lights on); the clown now leaves him be and they seem to enjoy swimming against the flow from my MP40s most of the time together along with the Med Sailfin tang who also gave him a few brushes when 1st introduced. Purple tang has left him along as has other yellow tangs. Large PBT is now the largest fish in the tank 2nd to my 6" adult Angularis angel and all seem to be doing okay. Also added a small foxface lo and small Vlamingi Naso Tang at the same time as introducing the PBT and they have had no issues or aggression and are doing fine. So far we're almost a week in and no fights...even at feeding time. Also am treating seaweed/nori and mysis with Zoe and Vitachem also to improve their immune system as well. Fingers crossed.

PBT now cruises the tank and ignores mostly everyone as he goes about his vigorous swimming rounds in and out of the MP40/10s and Gyre flows.

BTW would I be pushing it IF I added a tennenti (Lieutenant) tang as one last addition? Love how they look. Gut says definitely yes! Heart says why not try before PBT gets too established and rejects any other new fish additions.

Wow, that is a lot of tangs in your tank. How will you handle that bio-load in a few years when all of them have grown much larger? I am genuinely curious because I am stocking my first tank over 120g and based on many of the stocking plans I am reading on these forums, I am under-stocking.

Everything I have read on this forum leads me to believe that PBT won't survive long term in your tank because of the ich. Maybe I am wrong, I have not kept one myself yet, but I have qt every fish since I think there is a possibility I may add one.

 

[Ento-Reefer]

Yes eventually a sailfin can outgrow a 180 as well but they’re not very demanding with regards to tank space like some larger tangs. In truth most tangs in my 180 will eventually outgrow it, but I rehome fish when needed. I plan to build a large wall tank so I’ll have a place for the giants!

So if I got a sailfin it may be ok for quite a long time in my 180g? I don't think I will be upgrading for quite some time, maybe never?? It took me 26 years to get to a 180 so maybe in another 10 I will graduate to a 300 lol.

 

[Ento-Reefer]

Yeah, but your Hippo Tang is a coward.

No one should ever put one in a 6' tank, let alone a 5' tank like mine. That is why I went with these fish.

Wow, that hippo is gorgeous!!! You are making me want to try one and see how it does.

 

[Brew12]

Everything I have read on this forum leads me to believe that PBT won't survive long term in your tank because of the ich. Maybe I am wrong, I have not kept one myself yet, but I have qt every fish since I think there is a possibility I may add one.

It's not impossible and it has been done. It just has it's challenges. A change in stress in the tank such as aggression, water quality, or hardware failures, can open them up to an outbreak. In some ways, it is more work than putting fish through QT. And you definitely don't want to be a tinkerer or love the look of a sterile tank.

So if I got a sailfin it may be ok for quite a long time in my 180g?

If you start small you will be doing very well if you have him long enough to outgrow your tank.

 

[Brew12]

Wow, that hippo is gorgeous!!! You are making me want to try one and see how it does.

Thank you. I'm not all that good with coral but the fish came easy. I had a lot of help from @4FordFamily , @Humblefish and @melypr1985 who got me started with proper QT right off the bat. For someone who was new to saltwater at the time it was exactly the help I needed. I'm also a big fan of Paul B and his concepts of fish immunity. I feed my fish as healthy as possible just in case something does get through my QT system. I do sheet nori and PE mysis every morning. Every other morning I feed PE Calanus and I feed LRS Fish Frenzy every evening. I try to spoil them.

 

[Ento-Reefer]

Thank you. I'm not all that good with coral but the fish came easy. I had a lot of help from @4FordFamily , @Humblefish and @melypr1985 who got me started with proper QT right off the bat. For someone who was new to saltwater at the time it was exactly the help I needed. I'm also a big fan of Paul B and his concepts of fish immunity. I feed my fish as healthy as possible just in case something does get through my QT system. I do sheet nori and PE mysis every morning. Every other morning I feed PE Calanus and I feed LRS Fish Frenzy every evening. I try to spoil them.

I feed heavy and I also use LRS and mysis! Every fish in my tank eats the nori.

If you start small you will be doing very well if you have him long enough to outgrow your tank.

Do sailfins not live very long, or do they just grow really slow?

 

[Ento-Reefer]

It's not impossible and it has been done. It just has it's challenges. A change in stress in the tank such as aggression, water quality, or hardware failures, can open them up to an outbreak. In some ways, it is more work than putting fish through QT. And you definitely don't want to be a tinkerer or love the look of a sterile tank.

I have kept an ich management tank in the past before I even knew the term. I got serious about QT. in 2014 when I restarted my 95g. I have been somewhat successful with qt fish, but I don't enjoy the process. I am looking forward to purchasing fish from @Humblefish in the future.

 

[Brew12]

Do sailfins not live very long, or do they just grow really slow?

I've never kept one but my understanding is that it can take up to 10 years or more for them to reach full size. Like most fish, they start out growing fast but as they get larger the growth rate slows down.

 

[4FordFamily]

So if I got a sailfin it may be ok for quite a long time in my 180g? I don't think I will be upgrading for quite some time, maybe never?? It took me 26 years to get to a 180 so maybe in another 10 I will graduate to a 300 lol.

Yes just buy a bit larger than the PBT, perhaps .5 inches larger.

 

[4FordFamily]

I feed heavy and I also use LRS and mysis! Every fish in my tank eats the nori.





Do sailfins not live very long, or do they just grow really slow?

They can live upwards of ten years in the hobby. They’re not slow growers they get to 5” pretty quick and then start to slow down considerably.

Edit: just saw @Brew12 answered I guess there’s an echo in here!

 

[norfolkgarden]

What are reasonable life expectancy for each types of the smaller tangs?
For arguments sake, say you started with a 3" fish and have it in a 180 gallon tank.

Thanks!

 

[4FordFamily]

What are reasonable life expectancy for each types of the smaller tangs?
For arguments sake, say you started with a 3" fish and have it in a 180 gallon tank.

Thanks!

10-15 years with proper husbandry perhaps. Very few make it that long in the hobby.

It’s also hard to know how old a fish is by size, some lived in environments with lots of food and grew quite fast, others not.

 

[norfolkgarden]

10-15 years with proper husbandry perhaps. Very few make it that long in the hobby.

It’s also hard to know how old a fish is by size, some lived in environments with lots of food and grew quite fast, others not.

Is that their normal lifespan?

Do they die from HLLE? Or simply outgrow the 'temporary' 75 gallon tank they start out in and never get a needed upgrade?

Are we still incapable of providing them with good longterm nutrition?

Thank you!
I want to keep mini me 7/8" blue hippo tang as healthy as possible.
[emoji3]

 

[4FordFamily]

Is that their normal lifespan?

Do they die from HLLE? Or simply outgrow the 'temporary' 75 gallon tank they start out in and never get a needed upgrade?

Are we still incapable of providing them with good longterm nutrition?

Thank you!
I want to keep mini me 7/8" blue hippo tang as healthy as possible.
[emoji3]

There’s conjecture that some tangs can live 20 years, many factors lead to that. I’ve seen giant sailfin without notable HLLE.

Hippos on the other hand, any slip in husbandry can send them down HLLE lane they may never fully recover from.

 

[mdrobc13]

Also, to reduce the odds of a tyrant powder becoming being take boss should you go that route (which can be problematic) I recommend neutralizing it with a larger tang (if you had a larger tank, naso are a great equalizer). Sailfin tangs are often more docile as far as zebrasoma tangs go, and i would be more shocked if a small scopas pressed its luck with a sailfin, though they share the zebrasoma genus.

Of course, over time if the powder blue grows faster, social dynamics may change, causing the powder blue to take over as tank boss. Sometimes this is an issue, other times it is not—- some just want the authority and feel no need to use it.

However, this can also be achieved by buying a small powder blue. I find them very difficult to keep smaller than 2.3-3 inches, however. 3-4 inches is a hardy enough size, typically. A large bristlooth tang can be a good tank boss, although I find Kole to be tyrannical on occasion.

What worked for me was to get a large Powder Blue tang who was larger than my other tangs...added him last and so far so good. Clown Tang and Sailfin have accepted him whereas they killed the last Powder Brown tang who was added that was smaller in size. No issues otherwise and new order has been established and the Powder Blue and my Angularis Angel are the current tank bosses. Fingers are crossed.

Would like to add one or two Scopas Tangs and a Leutenant Tang also but I think I am tang'ed out at this point and probably the only thing I can get away with adding is a small dwarf angel at this point.

 

[mdrobc13]

Wow, that is a lot of tangs in your tank. How will you handle that bio-load in a few years when all of them have grown much larger? I am genuinely curious because I am stocking my first tank over 120g and based on many of the stocking plans I am reading on these forums, I am under-stocking.

Everything I have read on this forum leads me to believe that PBT won't survive long term in your tank because of the ich. Maybe I am wrong, I have not kept one myself yet, but I have qt every fish since I think there is a possibility I may add one.

They are doing fine..I have as big a skimmer as I can tolerate/fit on my tank (BubbleMagnus Curve D9) rated for up to 300+ gallons for hi bio-load and I've got a full refugium with macroalge using the Triton method for the last 4 months and so far so good. Largest are the newly added Powder Blue Tang 5" and Angularis Angel 5-6" followed by my Purple and Sailfin tangs who are each about 4-5" Two yellow tangs are between 3-4" and clown tang is 3.5" long. Vlamingi Tang just added is small about 2.5" but I know they get big. Hippo tang I got at 2" and is now almost 4.5" long. My Blue Faced angel is still a juve and about 3-4" and Potters angel is 3" also. Rock Beauty is a small one 3" and my Foxface is small also 3". Two Diamond Orange Gobies are med about 3" long and that's about it other than the schooling Green Chromis (small).

Tank is 210 g with a 34" Trigger Purple/Amethyst Sump...so I am about as far as I can go I think with the bio load. Lots of life rock in the tank and sump also. Plan is to upgrade possibly in another year or two tank wise and when I retire from my current job (no more frequent moves) then will go big or go home with a custom peninsula tank of at least 400-500g or more depending on house/residence. But yeah I am tanged' out at this point!

 

[Ento-Reefer]

All I can say is amazing @mdrobc13. I never realized how much bioload a tank could handle. I know I probably won’t stick as many fish as you, but it is nice to know I have quite a bit of leeway. My skimmer is rated for a 400g tank and I have a decent refugium also. Thanks for replying.

 

[mdrobc13]

All I can say is amazing @mdrobc13. I never realized how much bioload a tank could handle. I know I probably won’t stick as many fish as you, but it is nice to know I have quite a bit of leeway. My skimmer is rated for a 400g tank and I have a decent refugium also. Thanks for replying.

Here are some shots of my PBT and also my Angularis cruising also my yellow tangs and new rose bubble anomone..and I think my foxface and Rock Beauty are in there. Also a shot of tang feeding time where you can see my purple tang and clown tang closing in to get some nori also. I think my Sailfin is in there too...

 

[jgleach99]

Great info as i'm about to add a PBT to the mix. Currently I only have a yellow tang, but its been there for awhile so I'll heed your advice and try some of the tips!

 

[4FordFamily]

Great info as i'm about to add a PBT to the mix. Currently I only have a yellow tang, but its been there for awhile so I'll heed your advice and try some of the tips!

Thanks! Glad you found it helpful!