Talk Me Into Or Out Of Halides

[Frop]

Luckily none of those scare me... I have a 65 gallon RO/DI storage and fully automatic top off, so evaporation amount doesn't bother me at all. Bulb changes are just part of the game... no different than T5. I have heard horror stories about how much the electricity bill goes up. But this is reefing after all... I don't expect anything to come cheap lol. All good points though.

400w * 8hrs * 2 bulbs * $.31/kwh * 30days = $59.50 / month
80w * 8hrs * 4 bulbs * $.31/kwh * 30days= $23.81 / month
(400w x 2 + 80w x 4) *3.413watts/btu*8hr*30days = 917,414BTUh / 13 SEER = 70.570 kWh * $.31/kwh = $21.88 / month

So in my ESTIMATE that will cost you about $100/mo (with a rate of $.31/kwh like our tier 3 rate is) to run it 8 hours daily with a 13 seer AC unit. My average electricity bill is around $80-90 a month.

 

[Broadfield]

400w * 8hrs * 2 bulbs * $.31/kwh * 30days = $59.50 / month
80w * 8hrs * 4 bulbs * $.31/kwh * 30days= $23.81 / month
(400w x 2 + 80w x 4) *3.413watts/btu*8hr*30days = 917,414BTUh / 13 SEER = 70.570 kWh * $.31/kwh = $21.88 / month

So in my ESTIMATE that will cost you about $100/mo (with a rate of $.31/kwh like our tier 3 rate is) to run it 8 hours daily with a 13 seer AC unit. My average electricity bill is around $80-90 a month.

Man, you have some expensive energy... these are our rates:

Winter Schedule: For all kilowatt-hours used between September 1 and May 31 for which you are billed in October and the next eight (8) consecutive billing periods

First 600 kilowatt-hours per month @ 7.451¢ per kWh
Next 1,200 kilowatt-hours per month @ 6.834¢ per kWh
Over 1,800 kilowatt-hours per month @ 5.200¢ per kWh

Summer Schedule: For all kilowatt-hours used between June 1 and August 31 for which you are billed in July, August, and September.

All kilowatt-hours per month @ 10.25¢ per kWh

 

[Frop]

Man, you have some expensive energy... these are our rates:

Winter Schedule: For all kilowatt-hours used between September 1 and May 31 for which you are billed in October and the next eight (8) consecutive billing periods

First 600 kilowatt-hours per month @ 7.451¢ per kWh
Next 1,200 kilowatt-hours per month @ 6.834¢ per kWh
Over 1,800 kilowatt-hours per month @ 5.200¢ per kWh

Summer Schedule: For all kilowatt-hours used between June 1 and August 31 for which you are billed in July, August, and September.

All kilowatt-hours per month @ 10.25¢ per kWh

Ya man my parents bill is usually like $400+ in the summer. Our neighbor across the street sells solar. Told us the other couple across the street is also $400+.

Ya sorry I just checked tier 3 is .29
0-324 kWh is $.16
325 - 648 kWh is $.23
648 kWh + is $.29

But they have new rates coming soon again Looks cheaper.... but who knows.

I just moved in last year. It went from 4 tier to 3. Then it went from given kWh to some vague alotted % by area/season. Then they're opening the middle bracket. I thought I read theyre going to a 2 tier next.. then the solar guy keeps trying to tell me rates will go really high in 2020.

Anyways I'm in Southern California.

 

[Broadfield]

Well, I thought I better update this thread... I'm sold on the T5/MH combo. This image is running the Giesemann 17.5k bulbs and Giesemann Actinic T5 bulbs. I actually have the Giesemann 21k bulbs in the fixture now and that will be my setup... I'll get pics of that in the next couple of days. I was telling @Reefcowboy that I swear I already notice better growth and coloration after only 2 weeks.

IMG_5293 by Toby Broadfield, on Flickr

 

[Reefcowboy]

Broadfield,

Your tank is a piece of art, congrats. Something about MH's light comforts corals. An established tank running MH is an explosion of coral color and growth, as close to nature as a tank can get.

If a build is planned where the tank sits in a room with proper cooling, the MH's called "downfalls"are greatly minimized. Some people hate bulb replacements, I actually think it is much worse to depend on the lifespan of led diodes, where nobody has a definite answer on how long until they start dropping.

When a bulb is replaced, it will perform jus like if the fixture came out of the box again... Giesemann MH's look amazingly sleek making it look sharper than many led fixtures out there.

 

[mcarroll]

Some people hate bulb replacements, I actually think it is much worse to depend on the lifespan of led diodes, where nobody has a definite answer on how long until they start dropping.

When a bulb is replaced, it will perform jus like if the fixture came out of the box again.

I think we hate the cost of bulb replacements more than we hate the bulb replacements themselves.

So with LED's a slow, steady intensity drop over a 10 year period where you probably won't even notice, nor will the corals, is a problem how? (It's not.)

Use a light meter (like we all should) and there's no mystery either. Just consider that you have 5-10 years to save up and figure out what you want next time – relax! You can use the dimming feature on the new fixture to match the intensity level of your old, outgoing fixture – no problem!

Halides, by contrast, drop to unusable and even harmful status with 6 months to a year.

Then when you replace them with new bulbs – BAM – instantly back to 100% intensity.

That's a case for light shock and I don't know anyone with halides who doesn't have to manage that effect by hand.

I did and while it never caused a problem, it was also no joke.....not at the end of the dying bulbs and not at the beginning of the fresh ones.

I just wish someone had told me it was OK to use a lux meter back then....folks were so phobic of them back then. Still are, but a lot less-so. Thanks, Dana Riddle, for finally cluing me in around 2007 or 2008!

• especially these first two
• Feature Article: How Much Light?! Analyses of Selected Shallow Water Invertebrates' Light Requirements
• Product Review: Lighting for Reef Aquaria: Tips on Taking Light Measurements
• (newer article) Aquarium Equipment: PAR Meters and LEDs - How Accurate are the Measurements? A Comparison of Three Meters and Lux to PAR Conversion Factors for LEDs
• (older article) Feature Article: Lighting the Reef Aquarium - Spectrum or Intensity?

(You probably have seen those....just saying for those who still don't measure their lights and maybe haven't seen them.)

 

[Frop]

Well, I thought I better update this thread... I'm sold on the T5/MH combo. This image is running the Giesemann 17.5k bulbs and Giesemann Actinic T5 bulbs. I actually have the Giesemann 21k bulbs in the fixture now and that will be my setup... I'll get pics of that in the next couple of days. I was telling @Reefcowboy that I swear I already notice better growth and coloration after only 2 weeks.

IMG_5293 by Toby Broadfield, on Flickr

That is such an awesome photo. Even the surface of the water looks awesome.

 

[reefwiser]

Very nice tank love the Giesemann fixtures they are sooooo sexy. Bulb replacement is soooooooooooooo over played it is ridiculous. I see a simple easy to maintain lighting system that you just turn on and off no crazy sliders or worrying about burning corals . No LUX or Par meters needed to adjust settings. Now you can just concentrate of providing the right chemistry to your Reef.

 

[Centerline]

I typically don't ask for advice in anything I do. I like to learn on my own merit, whether it be learning from mistakes or getting lucky the first time. With that being said, I have never owned halides before. I currently have a Giesemann Aurora, which is a T5/LED hybrid. The fixture is amazing in every way. But, I'm always up for trying new things... at least new to me. I have always love the crispness of halides and thought maybe I would switch it up. I have a buyer for my Aurora, so it would be a fairly lateral move money wise. I would want to go with the Giesemann Spectra, which is a T5/halide hybrid. It's actually the same chassis as my current fixture.... which as stated earlier, I love. Feel free to give me the pros and cons, but keeping in mind that I'm more than willing to do what's necessary to use halides... whether it be the need for a chiller etc.

The tank under T5/LED for reference:

IMG_4278 by Toby Broadfield, on Flickr

Man if you were running Radions or Hydras, black boxes, etc I would say go for it. But that is one phat fixture. I run a Specta with 2 250 Radiums and 2 B+, 1 65k and 1 kz new gen. I love it, fantastic fixture but that's on a SPS heavy tank and have to be very careful where I place LPS. I have a trachy that I paid grand for 6 weeks ago that I have had to move all over the place to keep it happy. I have my eye on another one that is bad to the bone but I probably will not purchase it because I'm afraid of frying it. With all of those LPS I wouldn't change a thing. You can keep anything, including SPS under that light and not have to worry about burning it up. And if you ever feel like you need a little more par you can flip out those ballast for ATI ballast and pick up 15%.
That's a beautiful fixture for your beautiful tank. I say keep it.

 

[Centerline]

Very nice tank love the Giesemann fixtures they are sooooo sexy. Bulb replacement is soooooooooooooo over played it is ridiculous. I see a simple easy to maintain lighting system that you just turn on and off no crazy sliders or worrying about burning corals . No LUX or Par meters needed to adjust settings. Now you can just concentrate of providing the right chemistry to your Reef.

You don't really have to replace T5s in the Spectra that often as they don't overdrive them like the ATIs. And the Giesemann MH bulbs are good for a year - no problem.

 

[bif24701]

Kessil AP700, MH look, color, and PAR with LED performance, power consumption, and flexibility.

 

[Centerline]

That's a helpful relpy! My tank is only 22" deep... do you still recommend the 400's? I'm not sure what spectrum bulb I would run since I would also have the T5's for some actinic or super actinic action. I don't like an overly blue look, as evident by my FTS.

I also added your option to the voting

Hey Man, if you haven't score your MHs yet let me suggest that you don't need 400s. Too much light will slow SPS growth right down and many of those LPS will be getting way too much light.

 

[Centerline]

Honestly I don't think you want to try something new. I think you just like cool new reef toys! HA!

There are MANY ways to grow a successful reef. Halides, LED, T5, Sunlight, Hybrids, Compact Florescents, etc. will all work for certain tanks and coral themes. They each come with their own set of challenges, pros and cons! Do what will make you happy and keep enjoying your reef.

What we really need is a LEDHALIDET5CF Hybrid!

You forgot the amazing URI VHO T12 bulbs (I miss the MH/URI combo) ... So we are looking at LEDHALIDET5T12CF Hybrid

 

[mtraylor]

Looking great. My current 255 is under Mitras 6100HV lighting and I just now bought the upgrade to 7206 led pucks. I switched over to led's many years ago from Radium 400 MH/T8 combo. From my experience over many years and allot of different lighting. My personal opinion is that the MH/t5 combo is one of the best on the market. Hard to beat the coloring and growth. Its a great choice for sps especially.

When I had 250Watt Radium bulb's on the aquarium the tank still lacked that glow that I had seen in some other aquariums but I could keep cool with fans. Once I switched to 400 Watt Radium bulbs, its the best lighting coloration I have had for most of the corals. Of course I had to purchase a chiller then.

Now I really like my LED's. The color is not pronounced as my 400 watt setup before, but the corals look great. I'm upgrading the pucks to try and get back to the color the 400W Radium bulbs gave me. I do enjoy the cheaper bills and the chiller constantly kicking in. So I will stay with LED's. Its all in the eye of the beholder. Glad you made the decision because you will always wonder if you don't do it.

 

[mcarroll]

The color is not pronounced as my 400 watt setup before, but the corals look great.

Can you tell me how many watts now vs then under the 400w Radiums?

 

[mtraylor]

When my aquarium was under 400 watt MH setup. I had the following setup:
Fixture: PFO 6ft pendant fixture.
Ballast: 3 electronic lumatek 400 watt ballast
2 6ft VHO T12 actinic bulbs. 160 Watts a piece.

So in total I had 1200Watts MH Radium Bulbs supplemented with 320watts of actinics = 1520Watts of lighting overall.
I now have 4 GHL mitras fixtures over the same aquarium. The Max for each fixture is 190 Watts so approximately 800 watts. All though I do not run the leds at full 190
watts so I'm using allot less electricity. I cant remember the power consumption difference as my old write up and forum was dfwmas, but they redone that thing an wiped
out all posts. I had performed power analysis over the photo period to show power usage difference. It was significant as the led's fluctuate power as you have it setup. The old
MH setup was just on and off.

 

[mtraylor]

Those T12 bulbs not T8 give your corals allot fluorescents. I used to buy them in bulk on line in packs of 6 to keep them on hand.

 

[fishkeeper2]

Heat (water temp increases), increased evaporation, electricity (they use up more juice), bulb changes (added maintenance).

 

[rtparty]

You don't really have to replace T5s in the Spectra that often as they don't overdrive them like the ATIs. And the Giesemann MH bulbs are good for a year - no problem.

ATI doesn't over drive their bulbs. It's a standard HEP T5 ballast. Geisemann uses inferior cooling and thus less PAR. It also means bulbs need to be replaced more often if running a full T5 setup.

 

[GoVols]

Very nice tank love the Giesemann fixtures they are sooooo sexy. Bulb replacement is soooooooooooooo over played it is ridiculous. I see a simple easy to maintain lighting system that you just turn on and off no crazy sliders or worrying about burning corals . No LUX or Par meters needed to adjust settings. Now you can just concentrate of providing the right chemistry to your Reef.

+1
I'll take the entire above statement to the grave