Sump advice

[thekap2]

I am going to have a custom sump built for my IM Nuvo 200 EXT.
Things i have settled on are i will use a reefmat, a skimmer with ozone, i will have a fairly large refugium area and i will have a section before the return for dosing and heating that will include a powerhead. i also plan to have a uv. I am going to run lines for ATO directly from my rodi, and also run lines for auto daily water changes.

So my biggest question is i was thinking of having a section of the sump for reactors, but the more i look into it and think about it i dont know if i would need any reactors. Is there any reason with a setup like that, anyone can think of, for a reactor?

Originally i was thinking carbon but i have decided to go the route of ozone. I will likely do a kalk reactor but from everything i have seen these are never internal reactors.

This is a new tank i am going to be starting when it comes in in the next 46 months. the plan is coral and heavy fish. will probably end up doing a kessel/ai blade light setup.

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

There are many personal preferences when designing a sump. Simply put, no one needs reactors. Now I sell them and I don't think they are garbage but I personally don't use them. I am a big fan of the KISS principle in reefing and I prefer a very basic 3-chamber sump with a prefilter chamber an equipment chamber and a return pump chamber nothing else. I can always put some media in the prefilter chamber. (I prefer loose filter floss as a pre-filter.) The media does work better in a reactor but adding the reactor is just one more thing to maintain and I like the simplicity of just adding a bag of media to the prefilter.

 

[GARRIGA]

Aren't you going to need GAC post ozone? How's that getting deployed?

 

[thekap2]

Aren't you going to need GAC post ozone? How's that getting deployed?

from everything i have read and seen i dont think so because i only intend to run the ozone at low levels for an hour or less per day.

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

Another way to help eliminate residual ozone is to run your return line through a UV sterilizer. This is commonly used in industrial water treatment and it is what I used when using UV and Ozone on commercial systems. Just imagine how much carbon you would need to filter out residual ozone in 4,000 gallons or 40,000 gallons. Instead, the main system line is often run through a UV.

 

[GARRIGA]

from everything i have read and seen i dont think so because i only intend to run the ozone at low levels for an hour or less per day.

There's still the possibility of ozone produced oxidants (OPO) that may need carbon to resolve. @Randy Holmes-Farley has an article on this and it's widely known in seawater aquaculture.

Not saying one needs a reactor to deploy but carbon might still be a necessity. Granted I'm still learning about this so might be wrong. Hopefully Randy chimes in.

 

[GARRIGA]

Another way to help eliminate residual ozone is to run your return line through a UV sterilizer. This is commonly used in industrial water treatment and it is what I used when using UV and Ozone on commercial systems. Just imagine how much carbon you would need to filter out residual ozone in 4,000 gallons or 40,000 gallons. Instead, the main system line is often run through a UV.

I've been asking about this and researching and yet to get a definitive answer even when contacting the major UV manufacturers. Supposedly UV-C dissipates ozone and peroxide although both need to be running concurrently yet no mention found of whether it also resolves OPO or eliminates their formation. I'm thinking one needs to ensure the appropriate amount of UV-C used based on amount of ozone produced. It's not just about using UV but a specific spectrum of 253nm.

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

There's still the possibility of ozone produced oxidants (OPO) that may need carbon to resolve. @Randy Holmes-Farley has an article on this and it's widely known in seawater aquaculture.

Not saying one needs a reactor to deploy but carbon might still be a necessity. Granted I'm still learning about this so might be wrong. Hopefully Randy chimes in.

This is true. Bromate ion concentration is one of the Key indicators of excess ozone. In a commercial setting bromate is measured and the ozone is dialed down if it starts to get accessive.

 

[Solo McReefer]

I would design it so that much of that is outside the actual sump

Definitely the reactors are better outside of my sump

I would use an external refugium, or turn it into an algae reactor, I really like my Tunze (don't like the price). And the Deltec or Pax Bellum look nice. This way I could put it in the garage, storeroom, or bathroom behind the tank. And could add a cryptic sump later beside it, if I decided I wanted sponge diversity

The UV could be place in that adjacent room as well, would make that easier for changing the bulbs

I would have at least 3 levels of redundancy for a direct 24hr plumb of RODI to ATO reservoir, with alarms for spillage and leakage

 

[GARRIGA]

This is true. Bromate ion concentration is one of the Key indicators of excess ozone. In a commercial setting bromate is measured and the ozone is dialed down if it starts to get accessive.

Wouldn't they still need to remove that already created?

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

Wouldn't they still need to remove that already created?

Bromate can be removed by denitrifying bacteria. Here is an expert from a Randy Holmes Farley article.

Removal of Bromate by Biological Means

---

In addition to the methods described above for removing bromate and other OPOs before they get to the aquarium, they can also removed by biological processes taking place in aquaria. In this situation bromate is apparently the one that builds up in aquarium water. Many studies have shown that biological filters (bacteria on surfaces) can break down bromate in ozonized drinking water.70-72

Bacteria living under denitrifying conditions can also reduce bromate. As was mentioned earlier in the article, there is at least one study in the literature of bromate in a seawater aquarium.42 Here the ozone was used for disinfection, so its doses were high. Nevertheless, the bromate levels in the Living Seas exhibit at Walt Disney World's Epcot Center were found to have risen to about 0.6 ppm. Upon adding a batch denitrifying system, the bromate and nitrate concentrations began to drop.

Several conclusions can be drawn from this information:

1. When using ozone it may be prudent to have some denitrification taking place in the aquarium, either in live rock, live sand or in special denitrification systems.

2. Conclusions about ozone's safety or suitability, even if directed at exactly the same organisms in two different aquaria, may depend on the nature of the other husbandry practices in the two aquaria. For example, using ozone without GAC may be fine for 653 particular organisms living in tank A that also happens to have a large amount of live rock that can provide denitrification, but that same amount of ozone dosed to tank B containing the same 653 organisms without as much live rock may show more toxicity.

 

[GARRIGA]

Bromate can be removed by denitrifying bacteria. Here is an expert from a Randy Holmes Farley article.

Removal of Bromate by Biological Means

---

In addition to the methods described above for removing bromate and other OPOs before they get to the aquarium, they can also removed by biological processes taking place in aquaria. In this situation bromate is apparently the one that builds up in aquarium water. Many studies have shown that biological filters (bacteria on surfaces) can break down bromate in ozonized drinking water.70-72

Bacteria living under denitrifying conditions can also reduce bromate. As was mentioned earlier in the article, there is at least one study in the literature of bromate in a seawater aquarium.42 Here the ozone was used for disinfection, so its doses were high. Nevertheless, the bromate levels in the Living Seas exhibit at Walt Disney World's Epcot Center were found to have risen to about 0.6 ppm. Upon adding a batch denitrifying system, the bromate and nitrate concentrations began to drop.

Several conclusions can be drawn from this information:

1. When using ozone it may be prudent to have some denitrification taking place in the aquarium, either in live rock, live sand or in special denitrification systems.

2. Conclusions about ozone's safety or suitability, even if directed at exactly the same organisms in two different aquaria, may depend on the nature of the other husbandry practices in the two aquaria. For example, using ozone without GAC may be fine for 653 particular organisms living in tank A that also happens to have a large amount of live rock that can provide denitrification, but that same amount of ozone dosed to tank B containing the same 653 organisms without as much live rock may show more toxicity.

Have had that discussion with Randy and my interpretation and understanding that’s not viable for the home aquaria with best solution being carbon.

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

I can't tell you for sure as I have never monitored Bromate in a home aquarium. I have used ozone in low quantities at home for years without carbon but with a UV sterilizer on the sump return line and I did not notice any abnormal issues.

 

[thekap2]

In my case i plan to run ozone for about an hour a day at the generators lowest setting, combined with running dual return pumps both with uv at different flow rates to get max benefits from uv. Also like i said i will have daily auto water changes which should also help to keep anything undesireable down.

 

[Solo McReefer]

Why wouldn't you use the ozone on a controller?

Seems like if you have a set point, say 380 ORP, that would be more effective

Running UV sounds like that would be conducive to running, say, an hour a day

Rather than ozone

I've never read or seen someone do it that way. What would be the benefit of doing that?

 

[thekap2]

Why wouldn't you use the ozone on a controller?

Seems like if you have a set point, say 380 ORP, that would be more effective

Running UV sounds like that would be conducive to running, say, an hour a day

Rather than ozone

I've never read or seen someone do it that way. What would be the benefit of doing that?

An hour a day without exceeding 450 orp should get all the benefits I want and keep the negatives basically non existent. But this isn't based on personal expereince just what I have read/heard

 

[GARRIGA]

Why wouldn't you use the ozone on a controller?

Seems like if you have a set point, say 380 ORP, that would be more effective

Running UV sounds like that would be conducive to running, say, an hour a day

Rather than ozone

I've never read or seen someone do it that way. What would be the benefit of doing that?

UVC combined with ozone creates hydroxyl radicals which are more potent at oxidation and that UV-C dissipates ozone thereby not needing a controller. Assuming both ran concurrently. It’s often used in commercial aquaculture and something I’ll be testing but first with peroxide as that has a similar affect.

Fact is there are UV which produce ozone and can be used as a single application. Ozone can only be produced when UV is on. Safest application I’ve seen and eventually will be testing that or might just start with it and combine peroxide as a means of treating in tank pathogens. Just not something I’m planning to run 24/7 and placed on a timer to coincide with post peroxide treatment. UV-C dissipates peroxide as well. Need to test if another UV need to solve the peroxide but thinking it won’t be needed. Test test test

 

[FishTruck]

Another way to help eliminate residual ozone is to run your return line through a UV sterilizer. This is commonly used in industrial water treatment and it is what I used when using UV and Ozone on commercial systems. Just imagine how much carbon you would need to filter out residual ozone in 4,000 gallons or 40,000 gallons. Instead, the main system line is often run through a UV.

Curious.

My ozone reactor is a UV bulb which creates ozone with UV light by running air over it. In the water, the UV has a different effect?

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

Curious.

My ozone reactor is a UV bulb which creates ozone with UV light by running air over it. In the water, the UV has a different effect?

Yes this is very well known in other ozone applications. Here is an article from Atlas Scientific explaining common ways of removing ozone. UV light in air has an all altogether different effect than ozone in water.

How To Remove Ozone From Water | Atlas Scientific

Ozone is removed from water in three ways: UV radiation, chemicals, and activated carbon. Ozone (O3) is a naturally occurring gas found in the earth’s atmosphere composed of three oxygen atoms joined…

atlas-scientific.com

 

[FishTruck]

To the OP... I would suggest leaving a space for a reactor and a manifold to connect it. Super handy if you want to occasionally run carbon for a specific reason or event.... and an in sump reactor has no worries about leaks etc.., so you can use a cheap one with half a$%% plumbing.