Skimmer yes or no?

[Billyreef-ita]

Hello, I’ ve been running this tank for two years now and after one year I started noticing no foam in my skimmer, then I decided not to used it anymore. At the same time I put an air pump in the sump to continue to oxygenate the water, my redox today is 230.
As for NO3 and PO4 I’m close to zero as I’m running a DSB and I have some macro algae directly in the tank.
My question is: do I need to reinsert the skimmer? Are there some benefits that I’m missing? I’m available to do it, I also spent money in a good one (max spect sk 400), but before doing it I would like to better understand. Thanks

 

[klavmaister]

Hi,

I have a red sea reefer 250 with a lot of fish, a roller mate and skimmer. Am going tonremove the skimmer and add macroalgee. You dont need a akimmer

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Need? No. Useful? Definitely, IMO.

Are you tracking pH to see how much it swings? That can be a useful measure if gas exchange.

 

[Billyreef-ita]

Need? No. Useful? Definitely, IMO.

Are you tracking pH to see how much it swings? That can be a useful measure if gas exchange.

I have 7.3 now (hanna tester) and 7.6 with the skimmer on.
Do you think this swing is important?

 

[Fish Styx]

I have 7.3 now (hanna tester) and 7.6 with the skimmer on.
Do you think this swing is important?

Critical.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

To me a pH reading below 8 is very bad. Skimmers aren't 100% necessary, but they do help oxygenation a lot.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have 7.3 now (hanna tester) and 7.6 with the skimmer on.
Do you think this swing is important?

If accurate, it’s a very bad problem (far too low) but I expect it is not accurate.

 

[joeyhatch11]

I run a skimmer where previously it was 7.8. Since running the line outside I've jumped to a steady 8.1-8.2 and my tank is thanking me for it. So I would say YES to the skimmer and get a good air supply line coming in if you can. But even just having it online pulling air in from the room its in will likely have a positive impact on your ph.

 

[Billyreef-ita]

I’ve always had PH below 8 and considered Hanna tester reliable but maybe I’m buying another one to be sure. Any PH test you suggest?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’ve always had PH below 8 and considered Hanna tester reliable but maybe I’m buying another one to be sure. Any PH test you suggest?

pH of 7.8 is fine.

pH 7.3 is not, and coral skeletons will be slowly dissolving. That said, pH 7.2 is also almost certainly test error since pH that low doesn't just happen on its own. One would need a very high excess of CO2.

I'd carefully recalibrate the Hanna with new calibration fluids before giving up on it. It should work fine.

 

[Billyreef-ita]

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ve recalibrated and I’m at 7.9 with lights off. It seems acceptable….many times ones forget instruments have to be recalibrated…

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ve recalibrated and I’m at 7.9 with lights off. It seems acceptable….many times ones forget instruments have to be recalibrated…

That sounds good.

Happy Reefing.

 

[Billyreef-ita]

That sounds good.

Happy Reefing.

 

[strich]

To me a pH reading below 8 is very bad. Skimmers aren't 100% necessary, but they do help oxygenation a lot.

I think it is worth mentioning that AFAIK there is absolutely no research to substantiate whether skimmers help oxygenate the water column or not. Certainly not enough to say it helps "a lot". If your goal is to increase O2 levels I think the skimmer may be unhelpful in that regard on its own.

 

[BOYERZ]

I think it is worth mentioning that AFAIK there is absolutely no research to substantiate whether skimmers help oxygenate the water column or not. Certainly not enough to say it helps "a lot". If your goal is to increase O2 levels I think the skimmer may be unhelpful in that regard on its own.

Boat loads of info, and real world data.

Just make sure your house is not a co2 machine. Lol!

 

[strich]

Boat loads of info, and real world data.

Just make sure your house is not a co2 machine. Lol!

Would love to know more - I've done a fair bit of reading. However maybe the better statement is: "Skimmers are no better or worse than airstones on oxygen levels". Caveat there that airstones can surely be configured in a much more efficient manner for the job. In which case, it would seem silly to keep using a skimmer if that's its sole purpose I think.

 

[BOYERZ]

Would love to know more - I've done a fair bit of reading. However maybe the better statement is: "Skimmers are no better or worse than airstones on oxygen levels". Caveat there that airstones can surely be configured in a much more efficient manner for the job. In which case, it would seem silly to keep using a skimmer if that's its sole purpose I think.

Skimmers pull out particulates under 1um.

They clarify water.

They have an effect on PH, good or bad

Airstone vs. Skimmer..... skimmer wins hands down. More useful tool in the tank.

 

[Garf]

For what it's worth, here's an analysis of skimmate;

Elemental Analysis of Skimmate: What Does a Protein Skimmer Actually Remove from Aquarium Water?

Department of Chemistry, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802. The chemical/elemental composition of skimmate generated by an H&S 200-1260 skimmer on a 175-gallon reef tank over the course of several days or a week had some surprises.

reefs.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think it is worth mentioning that AFAIK there is absolutely no research to substantiate whether skimmers help oxygenate the water column or not. Certainly not enough to say it helps "a lot". If your goal is to increase O2 levels I think the skimmer may be unhelpful in that regard on its own.

Well, that is incorrect as there are published articles testing it. I’ve posted links to Eric Bornemann’s oxygen articles many times. In some tanks it makes a big difference and in some makes less difference, especially very large tanks, where oxygen can be in sort supply and the skimmer is still not enough.
Some of his conclusions:

"Aquaria can and do become hypoxic at night and such a state may pose a risk to hypoxia-intolerant organisms."

"Airstones and skimmers appear to be a very effective means of oxygenating small water volumes. Their effect on larger water volumes appears to be less. "


http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/eb/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php

 

[strich]

For what it's worth, here's an analysis of skimmate;

Elemental Analysis of Skimmate: What Does a Protein Skimmer Actually Remove from Aquarium Water?

Department of Chemistry, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802. The chemical/elemental composition of skimmate generated by an H&S 200-1260 skimmer on a 175-gallon reef tank over the course of several days or a week had some surprises.

reefs.com

That was a great read, thanks!

The level of detail there is deep and I need to admit I would need more time to absorb it completely to make sure I've taken away the correct conclusions, but my read of it supports my judgement that skimmers are optional components* and may also ultimately be causing us to have to purchase and import more things like trace elements than would otherwise need to. The analysis linked above seems to state that skimmers export quite a lot of beneficial elements and potentially alive beneficial biomass alongside things like phosphates.

* I mean just in the average home aquarium I guess. Obviously to each their own.

Super interesting! It backs up my current thoughts that skimmers are a kind of bruteforce way to export a few negative elements and allow more control over the water make up at the expense of having to reimport a lot of beneficial elements at our own cost and (potentially) time.

Well, that is incorrect as there are published articles testing it. I’ve posted links to Eric Bornemann’s oxygen articles many times. In some tanks it makes a big difference and in some makes less difference, especially very large tanks, where oxygen can be in sort supply and the skimmer is still not enough.
Some of his conclusions:

"Aquaria can and do become hypoxic at night and such a state may pose a risk to hypoxia-intolerant organisms."

"Airstones and skimmers appear to be a very effective means of oxygenating small water volumes. Their effect on larger water volumes appears to be less. "


http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/eb/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php

Thanks I'll have a good read of those!