Seeking Advice: Battling Persistent Phosphate and Algae Issues in a Red Sea 425

[reefo420]

I'm in need of some expert advice for my 110 gallon reef tank, nearly 1.5 year old but It was wiped 7-8 months ago with 2ppm of copper to save the fish (not sure if it kills all the bacteria) . Despite a comprehensive filtration and feeding regimen, I'm grappling with two persistent issues: high phosphate levels and a significant algae problem.

Here's an overview of my setup and maintenance routine:

• Water Parameters: Nitrates at 27 ppm, Phosphates at 0.6.
• Filtration System: Includes a Red Sea Skimmer 600, a large amount of chaeto with a 35W light, and a reef mat 500.
• Feeding Schedule: Daily feeding of one frozen cube (consumed in under 2 minutes) and a 4x4 inch sheet of nori twice a week. My pufferfish is fed 4-5 krill superba pieces daily and sometimes half a jumbo shrimp.
• Maintenance Practices: I conduct 30% water changes monthly. I've upgraded from filter socks to a reef matt, which has significantly improved waste collection. I'm also dosing 14ml/day of Reef Zlements Z-Carbo Plus.

Despite these measures, my phosphate levels remain stubbornly above 0.2. I've been using GFO in the reef mat's basket, but it hasn't effectively lowered the phosphate levels. On a positive note, my nitrates have decreased from a high of 80-85 ppm to a more manageable 25-30 ppm over the last three months.

Additionally, I'm battling a large amount of green hair algae and brownish growths in the sand, which I suspect might be diatoms or dinoflagellates.

The corals are open and show good coloration, but their growth seems stunted, likely due to the high phosphate levels.

I'm considering whether implementing a GFO reactor would be more effective than my current method. Has anyone had experience with this approach in similar situations? Could this be the solution to lowering my phosphate levels and addressing the algae issues? last picture ( the full tank pic) is when my phos was at 0.8 and tank was at 80-85 nitrate

I'm open to any suggestions or recommendations from the community. Your insights and experiences would be invaluable in helping me improve the health and balance of my reef tank.

Thank you in advance for your guidance and support!

Best regards,

 

[TX_REEF]

have you considered an algae turf scrubber and/or macroalgae refugium?

 

[reefo420]

have you considered an algae turf scrubber and/or macroalgae refugium?

not many places offer in the UK, i've got one ordered should be here in 2 weeks, hopefully it makes a difference

 

[reefo420]

have you considered an algae turf scrubber and/or macroalgae refugium?

as for refeigum, i do have one in the sump and every new batch turns dark green, but it grows kinda quickly, so i do have one setup that's taking 50% of my sump

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I do not believe that nutrient reduction approaches are typically the best way to go of controlling algae. It's difficult to starve algae without starving corals. Consumers of that algae is usually much more effective.

Back to the copper, have you validated that you have removed it, such as with a quality ICP test?

 

[jda]

Separate the two. Algae issues need more consumers like urchins, snails, crabs - if you have some, then you need more. Most algae can thrive with po4 levels near zero since they can get P from other things that you cannot test for. GFO in a reactor is more efficient than GFO in a media tray or bag. Small amounts of GFO in a reactor changed daily has been the most efficient for me although more time consuming.

 

[reefo420]

FWIW, I do not believe that nutrient reduction approaches are typically the best way to go of controlling algae. It's difficult to starve algae without starving corals. Consumers of that algae is usually much more effective.

Back to the copper, have you validated that you have removed it, such as with a quality ICP test?

---

I haven't verified the complete removal of copper from my aquarium yet with an ICP test, I've used the hanna and there seems to be none almsot, To manage the issue, I've changed approximately seven times the tank's volume, performing 50% and 35% water changes monthly, depending on the aquarium's levels. Post-ich outbreak, I used Seachem CupriSorb, after adding copper, new corals introduced a month later have been thriving, though I'm now facing challenges with phosphate levels.

Concerning algae control, my current setup includes two urchins, which seem to clear about 20% of the algae on the rocks every week. However, the algae does grow back, albeit less thickly. I'm contemplating increasing the number of urchins, as they haven't significantly disturbed the corals. Currently, I have a pincushion and a purple urchin, but I'm unsure which type is most effective against green hair algae.

The aquarium contains around 140 pounds of live rock, which is quite difficult to clean or remove. This amount of rock is necessary as each fish has its own cave. I'm exploring the best methods to eliminate the algae. I already have a refugium and plan to quadruple my chaeto. Additionally, I've ordered an 8x8 inch algae scrubber with an 18w light and an air stone attachment. I'm uncertain if it's worth investing $200 in this scrubber or whether it will significantly reduce phosphate levels. Could you advise on the most effective and valuable solutions for my situation? (the scrubber is the one at the bottom (the large one)

 

[reefo420]

Separate the two. Algae issues need more consumers like urchins, snails, crabs - if you have some, then you need more. Most algae can thrive with po4 levels near zero since they can get P from other things that you cannot test for. GFO in a reactor is more efficient than GFO in a media tray or bag. Small amounts of GFO in a reactor changed daily has been the most efficient for me although more time consuming.

does the size of the reactor matter? and what's the easiet one to install, so i can easily replace the media, i'm looking for new urchins to add not sure which exactly

 

[reefo420]

also, should i increase my carbo-plus dosing(simillar to nopox) doing 14ml/day on around 90-10 gal of water? and levels are not dropping as much as i'd like them to

 

[exnisstech]

It has been mentioned already but lowering phosphate may not help with algae. To me your tank does not look overrun with gha. I've had much worse in one of my tanks with PO4 levels near 0. My most successful tank in my aquarium showcase runs PO4 0.4 - 0.6 consistently. If you want to lower PO4 I would suggest following the suggestion from @jda using GFO in small amounts in a reactor as GFO can strip PO4 very quickly. Do you have a clean up crew? Algae eating fish and/or snails and some crabs is where I would start. If you can keep inverts alive then I wouldn't worry about copper. Years ago I ran copper in the DT I mentioned above and was able to remove it using cuprisorb. Many peoples say it isn't possible to removed copper from the rocks but I beg to differ.
Reading your post you seem to be focused on the nutrients levels being the cause of your algae issues and as @Randy Holmes-Farley stated reduction of nutrients isn't the best at reducing algae. Starve the algae starve the coral.

 

[reefo420]

It has been mentioned already but lowering phosphate may not help with algae. To me your tank does not look overrun with gha. I've had much worse in one of my tanks with PO4 levels near 0. My most successful tank in my aquarium showcase runs PO4 0.4 - 0.6 consistently. If you want to lower PO4 I would suggest following the suggestion from @jda using GFO in small amounts in a reactor as GFO can strip PO4 very quickly. Do you have a clean up crew? Algae eating fish and/or snails and some crabs is where I would start. If you can keep inverts alive then I wouldn't worry about copper. Years ago I ran copper in the DT I mentioned above and was able to remove it using cuprisorb. Many peoples say it isn't possible to removed copper from the rocks but I beg to differ.
Reading your post you seem to be focused on the nutrients levels being the cause of your algae issues and as @Randy Holmes-Farley stated reduction of nutrients isn't the best at reducing algae. Starve the algae starve the coral.

Thank you for the answer, I'd like to keep my phos between 0.1-0.2 as i'll always be feeding heavy for this puffer to stop any aggression, i'm going through 1000grams/ of high capacity gfo every 45 days now which is costing quite a much and I'd like to keep it to a level i can manage and not the perfect 0.05 or w/e, for fish I've got a bristletooth tang, it cleans sometimes but iit's a medium fish and it can only eat so much, as for the foxface he's about 4.5 inches and he always eats algae but most of the day he watis for frozen or when he eats nori he barely touches the algae, i've got a good size purple urchin, and a small tuxedo, so I really wsnat to know the best things I can add, in terms of fish/and/or CUC crustaceans, i always have a cleaner shrimp that survived levels of near 2ppm copper and he's hear almost a year later, super healthy, corals have not showed a single bad sign apart from slow groth which is expected with this much algae, but with having the reefmatt and the biggest skimmer i can fit in the sump, i'm not really sure what I can do to battle this algae, it bothers me more than the phos, i'd like to remove some of the phos and a lot of this algae

 

[reefo420]

also any idea on how good that large uv scrubber would be? i've ran chaeto with a **** 8w and it was growing but now I've got a much much better light that's atleast 4 to 5 times better and I'm thinking of combining that with the algae turf scrubber

 

[exnisstech]

also any idea on how good that large uv scrubber would be? i've ran chaeto with a **** 8w and it was growing but now I've got a much much better light that's atleast 4 to 5 times better and I'm thinking of combining that with the algae turf scrubber

I've read good things about algae turf scrubbers but the threads all get derailed because the people that state they work great bring the science folks that state it's not possible to remove algae from the DT by growing it elsewhere. I have no reason to doubt they work for some people. What works for one person doesn't work for everyone so I try to keep an open mind.
Many people use flucanozol like flux rx with good results. I don't recommend it and It would be my last resort. I have used it and it will kill gha but once I used it I ended up with cyano that was worse than the gha.

 

[reefo420]

I've read good things about algae turf scrubbers but the threads all get derailed because the people that state they work great bring the science folks that state it's not possible to remove algae from the DT by growing it elsewhere. I have no reason to doubt they work for some people. What works for one person doesn't work for everyone so I try to keep an open mind.
Many people use flucanozol like flux rx with good results. I don't recommend it and It would be my last resort. I have used it and it will kill gha but once I used it I ended up with cyano that was worse than the gha.

would that kill all the chaeto as well? also about the turf scrubbers, would they be good for managing phosphate (i'm just getting another 3 urchins) any other good critters? sea hares, ..etc that can live and eat this algae?

 

[reefo420]

how can i know what green hair algae i have if flucanozol, ans is what i have on that sand cyano already?

 

[exnisstech]

Flux will usually kill chaeto. I've never used a scrubber personally so I don't know if they help reduce phosphate. My experience running chaeto fuges in 3 systems is that they are a great place for critters to grow and reproduce but very poor at nutrient reduction. Maybe if I harvested more often they would work better but l keep them just for the critters that grow there.
Sea hares are great at eating algae but they starve quickly once its gone so you have to feed them or rehome. A decent lfs will usually take them back for a store credit. Turbo snails are good also if gha isnt too long.

 

[Lasse]

As mentioned above - lower the PO4 will probably not help to diminish the algae growth, however grazers will. If I was in this situation I would first confirm my PO4 readings with another meter or method. There is some things in your history that ring a bell

I would also stop the use of Nori until the algae problem is gone or controlled. As you said by yourself . My bold

foxface he's about 4.5 inches and he always eats algae but most of the day he watis for frozen or when he eats nori he barely touches the algae

FYI Nori contain a lot of N that will end up as NO3 sooner or later. Better that you recirculate the N in the unwanted algae


IME a purple urchin (if you mean Strongylocentrotus purpuratus or similar) is not a good algae grazer but a rather good stone remover. However tuxedo urchin (Mespilia sp.) are excellent - some of them or/and a sea hare would be good. Small hermits - if your hawk tolerate them

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Yang’s Blue Paradise]

My method is always adding more clean up and crew and doing more water changes.

 

[reefo420]

Flux will usually kill chaeto. I've never used a scrubber personally so I don't know if they help reduce phosphate. My experience running chaeto fuges in 3 systems is that they are a great place for critters to grow and reproduce but very poor at nutrient reduction. Maybe if I harvested more often they would work better but l keep them just for the critters that grow there.
Sea hares are great at eating algae but they starve quickly once its gone so you have to feed them or rehome. A decent lfs will usually take them back for a store credit. Turbo snails are good also if gha isnt too long.

If i can get rid of it after, how good is it because I've seen a lot of good things people are saying about them, would they be able to get rid of my current algae( what's in the picture)? really interested in trying something different

 

[reefo420]

As mentioned above - lower the PO4 will probably not help to diminish the algae growth, however grazers will. If I was in this situation I would first confirm my PO4 readings with another meter or method. There is some things in your history that ring a bell

I would also stop the use of Nori until the algae problem is gone or controlled. As you said by yourself . My bold



FYI Nori contain a lot of N that will end up as NO3 sooner or later. Better that you recirculate the N in the unwanted algae


IME a purple urchin (if you mean Strongylocentrotus purpuratus or similar) is not a good algae grazer but a rather good stone remover. However tuxedo urchin (Mespilia sp.) are excellent - some of them or/and a sea hare would be good. Small hermits - if your hawk tolerate them

Sincerely Lasse

not sure what genus it is, it's just called "

Purple Stripe Urchin​

" online, and a have a small tuxedo, about an inch, he tries but he can't do much since he's small and there is a large amount of rocks, so get 4 more? or what other urchins will work well that a large than a tuxedo or did i just get a small one? hawk is chill my fish are (puffer,hawk,wrasse) they are all well fed and they bother nothing because of that, are hermits better than snails? because the snails were very dissapointing