Second Opinion on What causes this in SPS

[Keenan]

Wondering what is causing some of my sps to look "unhealthy" where the skin looks thin and faded/brown in some areas.

I'm guessing I know the answer, which is low nutrients, however my nutirents are pretty solid (.08 po4 and 15-20 NO3). My po4 isn't the most stable and can sometimes bottom out, so it could possibly be that. Just wondering what other people think. Thanks.

I know it looks fine on mobile or without looking closer, but if you zoom in you should be able to see what I’m referring to.

 

[happyhourhero]

Looks pretty good to me. Bottomed out phosphates do cause issues for sure so if that happened, it could be part of it.

 

[Perry]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
That is one amazing piece!
Are you dosing trace? What exactly are you dosing?
That piece has a zeovit type appearance, usually linked to heavy metal dosing, specifically copper sulfate, which thins tissue, giving a more sheeny metallic type appearance.
Outstanding!!!

 

[Keenan]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
That is one amazing piece!
Are you dosing trace? What exactly are you dosing?
That piece has a zeovit type appearance, usually linked to heavy metal dosing, specifically copper sulfate, which thins tissue, giving a more sheeny metallic type appearance.
Outstanding!!!

Yes, this is a great way to put it. A very zeovit-like appearance. I like to run a pretty nutrient heavy system (compared to most sps dominant systems at least) and my sticks never had this pastel/fading color before. It still looks alright for now but I’m worried it will continue to fade and decline.

Shouldn’t be metal related as I recently got an icp test back and everything was good. I dose kalk, DIY all for reef, and acropower. Oh and neophos however lately it’s been tough to dial in.

 

[CK00020]

I get that same look from some of mine, stopped dosing acropower and everything colored up nicely.

 

[Perry]

Yes, this is a great way to put it. A very zeovit-like appearance. I like to run a pretty nutrient heavy system (compared to most sps dominant systems at least) and my sticks never had this pastel/fading color before. It still looks alright for now but I’m worried it will continue to fade and decline.

Shouldn’t be metal related as I recently got an icp test back and everything was good. I dose kalk, DIY all for reef, and acropower. Oh and neophos however lately it’s been tough to dial in.

For tissue support and density, KZ FWS is really good stuff. Keep in mind AFR has C-source, if I am not mistaken. So, perhaps move to kalkwasser until fully saturated and matching evaporation. Once exceeded a simple A/B should do it. You're welcome to look at my journal, I think the saturation you are looking for is exactly what I am achieving.
Personally, I always chased pastel, run t5's, yet still get deeply saturated colors. Most consider a good problem, but Krzystof Tryc had that zeo appearance dialed in, back in the day, Jaw dropping, of course something that inspired me.
I highly doubt that coral pictured is anything to be concerned with.

 

[Keenan]

I get that same look from some of mine, stopped dosing acropower and everything colored up nicely.

Interesting.. I attributed a lot of my sps coloration and health to acropower, but of course with no actual evidence. I may try stopping for a while and see if things change.

Thanks

 

[Keenan]

For tissue support and density, KZ FWS is really good stuff. Keep in mind AFR has C-source, if I am not mistaken. So, perhaps move to kalkwasser until fully saturated and matching evaporation. Once exceeded a simple A/B should do it. You're welcome to look at my journal, I think the saturation you are looking for is exactly what I am achieving.
Personally, I always chased pastel, run t5's, yet still get deeply saturated colors. Most consider a good problem, but Krzystof Tryc had that zeo appearance dialed in, back in the day, Jaw dropping, of course something that inspired me.
I highly doubt that coral pictured is anything to be concerned with.

You’re likely right about just dosing kalk for now until max saturation, however I like the trace addition that AFR provides and I’m really not dosing that much daily at the moment.

I’ll check out your thread, thanks. And yeah at the moment that one looks fine, and most look normal, however there are some that are worse than this once even. I’ll try to get a picture of a different piece that maybe better illustrates my concern I hope you’re right and that it’s nothing though

 

[Perry]

You’re likely right about just dosing kalk for now until max saturation, however I like the trace addition that AFR provides and I’m really not dosing that much daily at the moment.

I’ll check out your thread, thanks. And yeah at the moment that one looks fine, and most look normal, however there are some that are worse than this once even. I’ll try to get a picture of a different piece that maybe better illustrates my concern I hope you’re right and that it’s nothing though

Trace has metals, back in the day people started playing with manganese and copper sulfate dosing, your corals only can use so much, then the tissue thins. Honestly, I wouldn't worry over trace until you have a LARGE coral mass. A simple water change will dial in deeper saturation, making corals work for those micro elements. If anything, dose separate, and at a fraction. I use RS color program at 25% recommended dose, and have a very large coral mass.
Tim, aka therman is one of the best acro legends around, he doesn't dose trace, just w/c.
Again, based on what? An ICP? What if it has errors and you dose to the test result? We have been growing acros long before ICP. Don't hate, but I have never done one
Never will

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

What acro is pictured??


Are you still using the sea Chem matrix? I tried that a couple years ago in my acro scrap tank. All the acros looked great even though my no3/po4 was 55 and 0.50. 3 weeks after trying the matrix in a hang on filter they dropped to 25 and 0.30 but all the acros were almost dead. Thin, dried up looking tissue. They bounced back as soon as I removed the matrix.

I’m a big fan of the maxspect bio media though.

I also see a lot struggling sps threads that use the roller mat. Maybe it’s a coincidence but I would never use one. My corals like my swampy water.

 

[Pod_01]

Wondering what is causing some of my sps to look "unhealthy" where the skin looks thin and faded/brown in some areas.

I'm guessing I know the answer, which is low nutrients, however my nutirents are pretty solid (.08 po4 and 15-20 NO3). My po4 isn't the most stable and can sometimes bottom out, so it could possibly be that. Just wondering what other people think. Thanks.

I know it looks fine on mobile or without looking closer, but if you zoom in you should be able to see what I’m referring to.
View attachment 3129451

From my experience sinking PO4 and prolong time at levels below 0.04 leads to what you describe.

same coral now:

Also NO3 and PO4 levels for reference

One possible cause.
When PO4 is above 0.1 I did not observe this behaviour.

 

[dbq5anlxj]

What acro is pictured??


Are you still using the sea Chem matrix? I tried that a couple years ago in my acro scrap tank. All the acros looked great even though my no3/po4 was 55 and 0.50. 3 weeks after trying the matrix in a hang on filter they dropped to 25 and 0.30 but all the acros were almost dead. Thin, dried up looking tissue. They bounced back as soon as I removed the matrix.

I’m a big fan of the maxspect bio media though.

I also see a lot struggling sps threads that use the roller mat. Maybe it’s a coincidence but I would never use one. My corals like my swampy water.

My tank glass covered by brown diatom everyday. I have few bag seachem matrix in my sump since the start. Can this be the cause? I removed half of the matrix today and will add a little more maxspect bio ball.

 

[Keenan]

What acro is pictured??


Are you still using the sea Chem matrix? I tried that a couple years ago in my acro scrap tank. All the acros looked great even though my no3/po4 was 55 and 0.50. 3 weeks after trying the matrix in a hang on filter they dropped to 25 and 0.30 but all the acros were almost dead. Thin, dried up looking tissue. They bounced back as soon as I removed the matrix.

I’m a big fan of the maxspect bio media though.

I also see a lot struggling sps threads that use the roller mat. Maybe it’s a coincidence but I would never use one. My corals like my swampy water.

CC Pink Highlighter

not sure it’s the matrix, I’ve used matrix since day 1 of my system (before moving a year ago, but I kept all the same LR, matrix, etc just a new tank and sump) and had really good success with it. Did add an absurd amount of it recently though and that could be having an effect.

I do agree with you on the filter rollers stripping too much out of the water though. Thankfully the sump I have has a bypass hole that you can close/open to allow a certain amount of water to bypass the rollermat. I leave mine half open to both keep the water from getting over stripped and to prolong the life of the roll. I like dirty water as well for my tank

I think I’m going to try to keep my p04 above .1 for a few months and see how that works.

Thanks everyone for your input!

 

[Keenan]

From my experience sinking PO4 and prolong time at levels below 0.04 leads to what you describe.

View attachment 3129705

same coral now:
View attachment 3129717

Also NO3 and PO4 levels for reference
View attachment 3129718


One possible cause.
When PO4 is above 0.1 I did not observe this behaviour.

I agree. I try to keep my po4 around .1, however my tank consumes a ton of phosphate and it’s hard to keep it up and stable. Even when my old tank was thriving at my previous house it was a constant battle

 

[Pod_01]

I agree. I try to keep my po4 around .1, however my tank consumes a ton of phosphate and it’s hard to keep it up and stable. Even when my old tank was thriving at my previous house it was a constant battle

Just for reference my filtration consists of skimmer and bag of carbon (20ml pet 100l that I change every 4-6 weeks). I don’t use filter sock, rollers, reactors, refugium etc…
I do get lot of floating bits in the water and I use the corals as filters, they really are hungry buggers.

 

[Spare time]

Browning can happpen in any scenario that promotes zooxanthellae such as elevated phosphates. Lower light can also lead to this.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I would maybe try and leave the po4 dosing alone. Are you adding (and if so why?) po4 with that brightwell product? I see the thin flesh in the middle. I wonder if the po4 fluctuations would be the culprit. I always had bad reactions when my po4 was wondering up and down near 0 at times.

 

[Keenan]

I would maybe try and leave the po4 dosing alone. Are you adding (and if so why?) po4 with that brightwell product? I see the thin flesh in the middle. I wonder if the po4 fluctuations would be the culprit. I always had bad reactions when my po4 was wondering up and down near 0 at times.

Without dosing PO4 my phosphates bottom out quickly. My tank consumes over .1 po4 daily. It’s been that way for over three years now. With the old tank (again same exact system as this one just a different tank and sump) I was dosing neophos manually and testing weekly. Since having the new tank I’ve tried to hook neophos on a doser to keep it more consistent, but have had a tough time nailing down a good frequency/dose. Everything thing I’m doing with this tank I was doing with the previous system, and that one had great success. That’s why I’m kind of stumped this time around.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Why don’t you reduce your export?

 

[Keenan]

Why don’t you reduce your export?

I have. I never run gfo. The bypass hole for my AFR is half open (could try to fully open it I guess. My skimmer is undersized, and aside from that I just have a lot of bio media and dose kalk, which reduces some po4.

I even throw in a bunch of benereef in my DIY frozen food mix which I feed a few times a week.