Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can you mix 1 gallon mix alk that was made with soda ash with a galling of alk that was made with sodium hydroxide? Kind of blend them together?

As Miami notes, Yes.

 

[Land&Sea]

Just to add what Miami wrote, if using AFR and alk is lower than you want, I recommend using more AFR.

The pH boost comes from the alkalinity solution.

You should use AFR to maintain alkalinity. If you dose other parts from different systems unevenly without testing, you risk elevating one of the foundation elements and not the other.

All for reef increases alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium in a balanced ratio. You should really only focus on alkalinity when dosing AFR. The other parts should naturally be in line.

It’s OK to test calcium, but magnesium tests don’t work, and the AFR will maintain it with no testing needed in your part.

Thank you so much for both of your replies!!

The reason I’m dosing Red Sea Foundation B on top of the AFR is because of the instructions (see pics below). And before I even noticed the instructions hidden behind the main wrapper, I also called Tropic Marin when I noticed my Alk dropped to 4.3 (with all my other parameters exactly where I wanted them), and they said to use their Balling B along with the AFR (I just had a lot of Foundation B sitting around, so I use that instead).

But, so you’re saying if I just raise the AFR dose, it will raise my Alk, and the calcium/magnesium won’t go out of whack?

Second to that, is there really any issue with dosing an Alk supplement (i.e. Foundation B) and keeping my AFR dose where it’s at if all my numbers are stable and where I want them now? Kinda like a “2 part” only using AFR instead of a “Part A?” The reason I ask is bc now that my parameters are locked in to where I want them, I wouldn’t know at what rate to back off the foundation B as I raise the AFR…I’m scared I’ll mess it all up somehow…as I mentioned, I’m AWFUL with all the math & chemistry.

Anyway, here’s the pics of the instructions I mentioned where it states that if ur calcium/alk are both low, raise the AFR. And if ur calcium is low but alk is spot on, use balling A in conjunction w the AFR. But if calcium is spot on and Alk is low (which is exactly what mine was), to use Balling B in conjunction w the AFR.

Any thoughts on this? Thank you so much again!!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you so much for both of your replies!!

The reason I’m dosing Red Sea Foundation B on top of the AFR is because of the instructions (see pics below). And before I even noticed the instructions hidden behind the main wrapper, I also called Tropic Marin when I noticed my Alk dropped to 4.3 (with all my other parameters exactly where I wanted them), and they said to use their Balling B along with the AFR (I just had a lot of Foundation B sitting around, so I use that instead).

But, so you’re saying if I just raise the AFR dose, it will raise my Alk, and the calcium/magnesium won’t go out of whack?

Second to that, is there really any issue with dosing an Alk supplement (i.e. Foundation B) and keeping my AFR dose where it’s at if all my numbers are stable and where I want them now? Kinda like a “2 part” only using AFR instead of a “Part A?” The reason I ask is bc now that my parameters are locked in to where I want them, I wouldn’t know at what rate to back off the foundation B as I raise the AFR…I’m scared I’ll mess it all up somehow…as I mentioned, I’m AWFUL with all the math & chemistry.

Anyway, here’s the pics of the instructions I mentioned where it states that if ur calcium/alk are both low, raise the AFR. And if ur calcium is low but alk is spot on, use balling A in conjunction w the AFR. But if calcium is spot on and Alk is low (which is exactly what mine was), to use Balling B in conjunction w the AFR.

Any thoughts on this? Thank you so much again!!

Yes, what I said is exactly what I think you should do. This is not the appropriate thread for an AFR discussion, so if there is any follow up, please start a new thread.

My advice often does not agree with manufacturer recommendations for many products.

If your alk is frequently dropping to 4.3 dKH, I think you may have issues that go beyond not dosing enough of any product supplement (such as excessive precipitation of calcium carbonate),.

That said, if alk is 4.3 dKH and you use any balanced alk and calcium supplement such as AFR to reach 7 dKH, calcium will rise by about 30 ppm and magnesium by an undetectable amount of a couple of ppm. Since calcium is perfectly fine in the range of 400 to 550 ppm, it is unlikely to not still be perfect.

This is not going to happen over and over. If your tank drops back to 4 dKH, it will necessarily have used about 30 ppm calcium and you will be back where you started, not where you started plus 30 ppm calcium.

Finally, like kalkwasser, AFR has a very tiny bit of excess calcium relative to alk. Over a period of months, calcium may slowly rise if you use AFR to maintain all alk needs. Regular water changes can eliminate that concern, but if (and when) it happens, you can use a little alk only supplement in place of the AFR to make an occasional correction.

 

[Land&Sea]

Yes, what I said is exactly what I think you should do. This is not the appropriate thread for an AFR discussion, so if there is any follow up, please start a new thread.

My advice often does not agree with manufacturer recommendations for many products.

If your alk is frequently dropping to 4.3 dKH, I think you may have issues that go beyond not dosing enough of any product supplement (such as excessive precipitation of calcium carbonate),.

That said, if alk is 4.3 dKH and you use any balanced alk and calcium supplement such as AFR to reach 7 dKH, calcium will rise by about 30 ppm and magnesium by an undetectable amount of a couple of ppm. Since calcium is perfectly fine in the range of 400 to 550 ppm, it is unlikely to not still be perfect.

This is not going to happen over and over. If your tank drops back to 4 dKH, it will necessarily have used about 30 ppm calcium and you will be back where you started, not where you started plus 30 ppm calcium.

Finally, like kalkwasser, AFR has a very tiny bit of excess calcium relative to alk. Over a period of months, calcium may slowly rise if you use AFR to maintain all alk needs. Regular water changes can eliminate that concern, but if (and when) it happens, you can use a little alk only supplement in place of the AFR to make an occasional correction.

Sorry for jacking your thread. I was very much ultimately interested in your DIY solution, but I obviously got side tracked after explaining my situation. Truly grateful for all your help tho!!

 

[steve 1965]

In a previous thread, I posted a true two part DIY recipe:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/

But some folks may want to just swap the new ingredient into my 2/3 part recipe (as used by BRS, for example).

Here's the original recipe link (which has a lot more discussion on the details and rationale):

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

The new recipe is shown below. It has about twice the pH boost of the original recipe (#1) and should be added to a very high flow area. Initial cloudiness (magnesium hydroxide) is expected, but it should disperse and dissolve. If not, stop using it and figure out why.

Alk part

Add 283 grams of sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water. It will get quite warm. Make sure it doesn't soften your container. This solution will contain about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity (5,300 dKH). BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin. Keep all reef chemicals, especially this alk part, in a way that children cannot access them.

Calcium part

Dissolve 500 grams (about 2 ½ cups) of calcium chloride dihydrate (such as Dowflake 77-80% calcium chloride or ESV calcium chloride; see below for substitutes and sources) in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume. You can dissolve it in about ½ gallon of water, and then pour that into the 1 gallon container and fill it to the top with more freshwater. This solution has about 37,000 ppm calcium.

Magnesium part

Dissolve Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate (3 cups) and magnesium chloride hexahydrate (5 cups) in enough purified freshwater to make 1 gallon total volume. There will likely be a precipitate that forms even if you fully dissolve both ingredients separately. That precipitate is calcium sulfate (calcium as an impurity in the magnesium chloride and sulfate from the Epsom salts). It is fine and appropriate to dose the precipitate along with the remainder of the fluid by shaking it up before dosing.

This solution is added much less frequently or in lower volume than the other two parts. Add 16% as much as the other two parts. Over the time you add 1 gallon of the others, 1 add 610 mL (2 ½ cups) of this solution. You can add it all at once or, preferably, over time as you choose, depending on the aquarium's size and set up. Add it to a high flow area, preferably a sump. In a very small aquarium, or one without a sump, I suggest adding it slowly.

Hi Randy
So I have been using your two part but with washing soda instead of baking soda and it’s been perfect for keeping my all and cal steady. But I’m still having a low ph value so thinking of maybe trying this recipe. But would like some more info as this sodium Hydroxide can be dangerous. Also having a problem even finding it.
Also if I switch out the soda ash for sodium Hydroxide do I dose the same amount into my tank? There isn’t really a clear explanation about how to dose it? My tanks 160 mixed reef with a DKH of 8.2 to 8.7. Thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi Randy
So I have been using your two part but with washing soda instead of baking soda and it’s been perfect for keeping my all and cal steady. But I’m still having a low ph value so thinking of maybe trying this recipe. But would like some more info as this sodium Hydroxide can be dangerous. Also having a problem even finding it.
Also if I switch out the soda ash for sodium Hydroxide do I dose the same amount into my tank? There isn’t really a clear explanation about how to dose it? My tanks 160 mixed reef with a DKH of 8.2 to 8.7. Thanks

Everything about using it is the same, and the suggestion to dose to a high flow area is even more important.

Search food grade sodium hydroxide at Amazon. I see it there.

 

[steve 1965]

Everything about using it is the same, and the suggestion to dose to a high flow area is even more important.

Search food grade sodium hydroxide at Amazon. I see it there.

Ok so I’ll just dose into sump where main pump is. Ok I’ll give it try.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok so I’ll just dose into sump where main pump is. Ok I’ll give it try.

Dose it slowly.

 

[steve 1965]

I will start with half dose and keep track of the Alk with Tident. Like I said oh isnt really an issue except for the summer months. So this may be my summer blend.
Does this really melt plastic containers? Should I get a 1G glass container ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I will start with half dose and keep track of the Alk with Tident. Like I said oh isnt really an issue except for the summer months. So this may be my summer blend.
Does this really melt plastic containers? Should I get a 1G glass container ?

Go slow and it’s not a problem.

 

[steve 1965]

I found this at my local Home Depot. It says it’s 100% sodium Hydroxide. But it’s not listed as food grade. Would this be ok to start off with?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I found this at my local Home Depot. It says it’s 100% sodium Hydroxide. But it’s not listed as food grade. Would this be ok to start off with?

I’d look for food grade from Amazon.

 

[steve 1965]

and can I add this in with my one gallon mix of sodium carbonate? I use 2 1/3 cup of the sodium carbonate per gallon. If so what would be the proper ratio? Or should these be mixed separate ?

 

[steve 1965]

I’d look for food grade from Amazon.

Ok I found it there I’ll order it thanks.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

and can I add this in with my one gallon mix of sodium carbonate? I use 2 1/3 cup of the sodium carbonate per gallon. If so what would be the proper ratio? Or should these be mixed separate ?

You cannot add the two ingredients in the same amount of total water for just one of them (say, 1 gallon), but you can combine the two recipes in the total amount of water for the two (say, 2 gallons) in any ratio you desire.

 

[Miami Reef]

You can also half the amounts to make a gallon

1 1/6 cups sodium carbonate + 141.5g of sodium hydroxide. That will have the same alkalinity concentration as the carbonate and hydroxide recipes.

 

[steve 1965]

Can you mix these both together in same 1G container to store it? And what is the best containers to use ?

 

[Miami Reef]

Can you mix these both together in same 1G container to store it? And what is the best containers to use ?

You can mix sodium hydroxide and sodium carbonate. They are stable together.

For the material: Polypropylene or Polyethylene (HDPE)

You can easily find HDPE containers. Vinegar is often sold in them.

 

[Miami Reef]

For anyone looking, I made a step-by-step tutorial for how to easily make a sodium hydroxide solution (for this recipe).

Safely and Easily Mixing Sodium Hydroxide: A Step-by-Step Guide

Sodium hydroxide raises pH equally to kalkwasser when increasing equal units of alkalinity. Many people enjoy using Sodium hydroxide because you can make it more concentrated than kalkwasser. This tutorial uses the standard DIY 2 and 3 Part concentration. BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[geko522]

When dosing Magnesium part is there guidelines on how much to start with or how many mL raises magnesium?

Is it best to dose all at once or throughout the day?

Just trying to find a starting point and tweak as needed. I don't want to over dose but trying to find out the lower limit dose.