Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Anyone here experiencing large quantities of the high ph alk remaining undissolved in their sumps?for some reason i have a mound of it in my sump where my dosing lines are located. Is this normal
? My doser offsets dosing elements by 5 min to avoid mixing. @Randy Holmes-Farley im dosing about 50 - 60 ml a day. Thank you for any help

The precipitate is likely magnesium hydroxide (the cloud that forms instantly but can redissolve with mixing), and possibly some calcium carbonate (a permanently insoluble material that forms a bit more slowly).

Dose more slowly or more diluted into a higher volume to tank water with higher turbulence (or all of the above).

 

[2una]

Randy can i just check something here please

Alk part

Add 283 grams of sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water. It will get quite warm. Make sure it doesn't soften your container. This solution will contain about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity (5,300 dKH). BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin.

Calcium part

Dissolve 500 grams (about 2 ½ cups) of calcium chloride dihydrate (such as Dowflake 77-80% calcium chloride or ESV calcium chloride; see below for substitutes and sources) in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume. You can dissolve it in about ½ gallon of water, and then pour that into the 1 gallon container and fill it to the top with more freshwater. This solution has about 37,000 ppm calcium.

Magnesium part

Dissolve Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate (3 cups) and magnesium chloride hexahydrate (5 cups) in enough purified freshwater to make 1 gallon total volume. There will likely be a precipitate that forms even if you fully dissolve both ingredients separately. That precipitate is calcium sulfate (calcium as an impurity in the magnesium chloride and sulfate from the Epsom salts). It is fine and appropriate to dose the precipitate along with the remainder of the fluid by shaking it up before dosing.

This solution is added much less frequently or in lower volume than the other two parts. Add 16% as much as the other two parts. Over the time you add 1 gallon of the others, 1 add 610 mL (2 ½ cups) of this solution. You can add it all at once or, preferably, over time as you choose, depending on the aquarium's size and set up. Add it to a high flow area, preferably a sump. In a very small aquarium, or one without a sump, I suggest adding it slowly.

The bolded part for the alkalinity part - is it definitely to 1 Gal or meant to be 1 Gal total with the 283g in it?
Just asking as with the calculators what i made should have been double strength what i was using & it didn't really seem like it was so would just like to check with you the above.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy can i just check something here please



The bolded part for the alkalinity part - is it definitely to 1 Gal or meant to be 1 Gal total with the 283g in it?
Just asking as with the calculators what i made should have been double strength what i was using & it didn't really seem like it was so would just like to check with you the above.

The correction you are asking about is very small. But the recipe is designed to 1 gallon total, not one gallon plus solids.

 

[2una]

The correction you are asking about is very small. But the recipe is designed to 1 gallon total, not one gallon plus solids.

Great thanks, same strength but adding to 1 gal what do you think 20g-50g more NaOH?
I'm working it back to 5 litre mixing so the adding to is easier but i have no knowledge how i properly work that out

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Great thanks, same strength but adding to 1 gal what do you think 20g-50g more NaOH?
I'm working it back to 5 litre mixing so the adding to is easier but i have no knowledge how i properly work that out

As I said, the correction is VERY small, and not worth worrying about.

I know it is counterintuitive, but by mixing into 1 L water, you made it a tiny more concentrated, not less, than if you added water to 1 L total.

The recipe here is 74.8 grams of sodium chloride in 1 L total. That solution has a density of about 1.077 g/mL. That means that if you start with 1 L of water and add 74.8 g, you will have 1,074.8 grams of material, and with a density of 1.077 g/mL, it occupies a volume of 998 mL.

So either way, the final volume is nearly 1 L, and yours is 0.2% more concentrated than normal.

 

[2una]

As I said, the correction is VERY small, and not worth worrying about.

I know it is counterintuitive, but by mixing into 1 L water, you made it a tiny more concentrated, not less, than if you added water to 1 L total.

The recipe here is 74.8 grams of sodium chloride in 1 L total. That solution has a density of about 1.077 g/mL. That means that if you start with 1 L of water and add 74.8 g, you will have 1,074.8 grams of material, and with a density of 1.077 g/mL, it occupies a volume of 998 mL.

So either way, the final volume is nearly 1 L, and yours is 0.2% more concentrated than normal.

I'm going to take your advice & not worry about it as my brain is going no no no but i also know you'll be right so i'm going to say thanks & put it to bed. Have a good weekend & thank you.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm going to take your advice & not worry about it as my brain is going no no no but i also know you'll be right so i'm going to say thanks & put it to bed. Have a good weekend & thank you.

I understand it seems wrong, but when materials like sodium hydroxide are added to water, it actually pulls the water molecules near it in very tightly, and so there's a volume reduction.

The effect is much smaller with ethanol, but in some ways is similar. Add 250 mL of ethanol and 250 mL of water, and you only get 480 mL of final liquid.

The Lost Volume Demonstration

In this activity, each balloon represents an electron domain (either a bonding pair or a lone pair of electrons) surrounding a central atom.

www.carolina.com

 

[DrMMI]

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley,

I noticed that this alkalinity recipe calls for just the sodium hydroxide in a total of 1 gallon of water, whereas your older post had it mixed with sodium sulfate. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/

Is there a reason to exclude the sodium sulfate in the new recipe? Thanks!

 

[DrMMI]

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley,

I noticed that this alkalinity recipe calls for just the sodium hydroxide in a total of 1 gallon of water, whereas your older post had it mixed with sodium sulfate. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/

Is there a reason to exclude the sodium sulfate in the new recipe? Thanks!

Nevermind, I found the answer. Sorry about the repeat question!

 

[MichaelReefer]

In a previous thread, I posted a true two part DIY recipe:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/

But some folks may want to just swap the new ingredient into my 2/3 part recipe (as used by BRS, for example).

Here's the original recipe link (which has a lot more discussion on the details and rationale):

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

The new recipe is shown below. It has about twice the pH boost of the original recipe (#1) and should be added to a very high flow area. Initial cloudiness (magnesium hydroxide) is expected, but it should disperse and dissolve. If not, stop using it and figure out why.

Alk part

Add 283 grams of sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water. It will get quite warm. Make sure it doesn't soften your container. This solution will contain about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity (5,300 dKH). BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin.

Calcium part

Dissolve 500 grams (about 2 ½ cups) of calcium chloride dihydrate (such as Dowflake 77-80% calcium chloride or ESV calcium chloride; see below for substitutes and sources) in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume. You can dissolve it in about ½ gallon of water, and then pour that into the 1 gallon container and fill it to the top with more freshwater. This solution has about 37,000 ppm calcium.

Magnesium part

Dissolve Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate (3 cups) and magnesium chloride hexahydrate (5 cups) in enough purified freshwater to make 1 gallon total volume. There will likely be a precipitate that forms even if you fully dissolve both ingredients separately. That precipitate is calcium sulfate (calcium as an impurity in the magnesium chloride and sulfate from the Epsom salts). It is fine and appropriate to dose the precipitate along with the remainder of the fluid by shaking it up before dosing.

This solution is added much less frequently or in lower volume than the other two parts. Add 16% as much as the other two parts. Over the time you add 1 gallon of the others, 1 add 610 mL (2 ½ cups) of this solution. You can add it all at once or, preferably, over time as you choose, depending on the aquarium's size and set up. Add it to a high flow area, preferably a sump. In a very small aquarium, or one without a sump, I suggest adding it slowly.

Randy, by making the Alk Solution... Does it warm up only when mixing, or stored it stays warm? Also, does it have any issue with being in glass containers? And how long will it store? If I make a gallon but have smaller containers?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, by making the Alk Solution... Does it warm up only when mixing, or stored it stays warm? Also, does it have any issue with being in glass containers? And how long will it store? If I make a gallon but have smaller containers?

It stays warm as long as a similar container of simple warm water stays warm: hours, not days.

Glass is likely OK. Only concern is some possible dissolution of silicate from the glass. Highly concentrated hydroxide solutions will visibly etch glass.

 

[MichaelReefer]

It stays warm as long as a similar container of simple warm water stays warm: hours, not days.

Glass is likely OK. Only concern is some possible dissolution of silicate from the glass. Highly concentrated hydroxide solutions will visibly etch glass.

So it is best to use plastic or acrylic?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So it is best to use plastic or acrylic?

Acrylic is a type of plastic, but IMO, polypropylene and polyethylene (e.g, HDPE) are among the best materials to store high or low pH solutions at room temperature.

 

[piranhaman00]

Acrylic is a type of plastic, but IMO, polypropylene and polyethylene (e.g, HDPE) are among the best materials to store high or low pH solutions at room temperature.

What is the pH boost per 1.4 dkh added? I know kalk is 0.6-0.7 is it the same just requires less solution?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What is the pH boost per 1.4 dkh added? I know kalk is 0.6-0.7 is it the same just requires less solution?

Identical.

But the effect is lower when dosing is spread out since the tank can constantly be pulling in CO2.

 

[piranhaman00]

Identical.

But the effect is lower when dosing is spread out since the tank can constantly be pulling in CO2.

Thank you for replying.

 

[JCOLE]

I am looking forward to trying this. Which one of these would be ideal?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am looking forward to trying this. Which one of these would be ideal?

From the descriptions, both are fine choices.

 

[JCOLE]

From the descriptions, both are fine choices.

Thank you, Randy! I will go with the first one. I am going to mix them in the BRS mixing jugs. I see where it can get warm. Do you see an issue with mixing in those jugs?

Mr. Chili Mixing Jug - 1 Gallon Jug

The perfect 1-gallon jug for mixing and storing 2-part or any other liquid solutions. There are many different methods for extracting the liquid out of the jugs from manual pump-top dispensers to drilling a hole in the cap and feeding your tubings through the hole down to the bottom of the jug...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Also, do you know what a typical shelf life would be once mixed?

 

[DrMMI]

Thank you, Randy! I will go with the first one. I am going to mix them in the BRS mixing jugs. I see where it can get warm. Do you see an issue with mixing in those jugs?

Mr. Chili Mixing Jug - 1 Gallon Jug

The perfect 1-gallon jug for mixing and storing 2-part or any other liquid solutions. There are many different methods for extracting the liquid out of the jugs from manual pump-top dispensers to drilling a hole in the cap and feeding your tubings through the hole down to the bottom of the jug...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Also, do you know what a typical shelf life would be once mixed?

I mixed mine in an old 1g Mott's apple juice bottle and it melted the plastic and got NaOH all over my laminate floors. Guess I lost my security deposit.