Ben549
2500 Club Member
dang thats a nice one!!!
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Correct!
My wife and I have tried a few times but it always seems like something comes up whether it be bad weather or her getting sick from my cooking haha
sadrobotz
2500 Club Member
camping is one of my absolute favorite things, a true source of relief and peace and happiness. we finally get to go this weekend with the family for a few days, i am SO excited
steveschuerger
I love Gonis and Euphyllia. Maybe too much
No limits baby!
steveschuerger
I love Gonis and Euphyllia. Maybe too much
woodyarmadillo
The other Tim
Camping is different in Texas. You gotta find just the right time. We use to camp a lot when I lived up north. I’ve only done it once in Texas on the 15 years I’ve been back here.
woodyarmadillo
The other Tim
We’re going to big bend for the first time this fall. Though we will probably do an Airbnb thing.
Elfie22
Valuable Member
Ben549
2500 Club Member
This is getting into theoretical territory, mind you. I asked a couple chemists/physicists about how much force would be needed to break an organic compound away from the bubbles, and their answer was to get a super computer because there are a billion variables to account and calculate for.
- That's silly, we can design a test for evaluating skimmer performance. Example: two buckets of 5gal fresh SW with a skimmer in each bucket. Then, dose an organic like phyto and look at the skimmate opacity and rate of collection. This doesn't account for differing behaviors of other organics but can at least provide some method of comparison.
A more wholistic approach is outlined here:
The Development of a Method for the Quantitative Evaluation of Protein Skimmer Performance
Department of Chemistry, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802. Protein skimmers have become indispensable for many aquarists who strive to maintain the high water quality necessary to keep stony corals.
reefs.com
Having said that, additional bubble plates is not going to reduce the flow in any significant way. It will create an insignificant amount of back pressure on the pump that's forcing the water through, as opposed to having just one plate, which I don't necessarily recommend for all applications either.
- I don't see how this could be true. Adding resistance is going to reduce flow up until the max head pressure is reached.
For that matter, if the plates were every 3", then you've effectively reduced your skimmer chamber size to a total of roughly 3-4". Like I said, all you're doing is adding turbulence
- the goal isn't to increase turbulence, it's to increase contact time. Ideally, we want the max contact time with the least amount of turbulence. That being said, there's plenty of turbulence in the ocean and it still collects organics.
by creating another barrier for the bubbles to hit and shake loose organic compounds.
- I don't believe that is correct. The organics are bound to the water at a molecular level. Think of a soap bubble with a protein in it, even if you cut a bubble in half, it's not going to give up that protein.
Yes, the flow rate through the holes in each sequential series of plates is lower, but each one still has choke points and surfaces for the bubbles to bounce up against.
- The idea with the sequentially larger holes is to increase the contact time while controlling the direction of the bubbles.
If you wanted to increase the contact time then you're up against two things: space and method of air injection. What you're designing is a hang-on-back skimmer. It simply can't be big per its nature, and that limits what you can do.
- It's actually a skimmer for the Red Sea Max Nano AIO, so it is internal but the form factor is similar to a hang on.
Also, you're more than likely using a needle-wheel type of air injection, which runs into a similar problem that most skimmers suffer from: the amount of air injected is linked to the flow rate.
- Most needle wheels skimmers that have the air intake attached to the skimmer pump intake are using the venturi principle. so it's a sucking force as opposed to blowing. That means the needle wheel approach applies to the mixing method.
It especially shows up in that style of air-injection more so than the others because there's no flow regulation on the needle-wheel pump. Quite literally, the more water the pump moves, the more air it sucks in, whereas venturi or beckett styles have certain flow restrictors in place, due to the nature of their designs. An old school counter-current air stone skimmer would be ideal for results in your situation, but they require a lot of maintenance, and I wouldn't recommend one of those either. Been there, done that about 13 years ago, and they're a pain in their own right.
- Yes and no. The flow of the skimmer pump is adjustable and the volume of air can be restricted. In my case, the input air is pressurized so I can go above the limits of what the venturi can handle. I played with this a little but didn't like the results.
The best advice I could give is to make sure the chamber is square as opposed to cylindrical, and to focus in on one point of turbulence if possible, specifically at the bottom of the chamber. A square chamber allows for roughly 33% more water volume for the same real estate compared to a cylindrical one, which adds water volume to your tank and allows the skimmer to process more water at once.
-Square may have more volume but the corners are dead spots and it will have more turbulence compared to cylindrical. I haven't seen any flow simulations that demonstrate that square is better than cylindrical. If you've seen any, please share!
Inject the water/air at the bottom and have it hit a chamber that directs both up in unison. The turbulence right outside the outlet of the needle-wheel is insignificant considering the water had .5 seconds of contact time with the bubbles before they hit the turbulent spot, so no organic compounds were bound to the bubbles anyway, then allow them to flow up together as smoothly as possible.
-I think we are in agreement that most of the contact time is in the reaction chamber/s
After that, try to prevent as many microbubbles from returning to your tank as possible. Yes, you can pump microbubbles into your whole tank to effectively turn it into a skimmer itself (which was a trend a good 6-7ish years back, and it will increase the filter capacity of your system, but it will also irritate corals.
-Agree, I don't want microbubbles
You're kind of limited in your design due to the parameters you're up against, but feel free to ask for more feedback on your future designs.
-What do you mean? the only real constraints are the outer dimensions, what we do inside is up to us
I have spent a good ten years researching skimmers and can be a valuable source of information for you.
-Let's keep this discussion going, I think it's valuable
A more ideal reaction chamber would probably look something like this:
sadrobotz
2500 Club Member
we'll be glamping a bit this weekend for sure, my parents have a really cool popup trailer and we have an enormous tent for the three of us plus the dog
Me camping... LOL
Elfie22
Valuable Member
That sounds fantastic to me!!!
Elfie22
Valuable Member
woodyarmadillo
The other Tim
Which lake?
Elfie22
Valuable Member
Whereabouts? Always looking for cool new spots!
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