Royal Gramma sick or injured

[Dweezilz]

I posted this on Humbl, but wanted to see if I could get a wider opinion since this seems an odd one. So I've had my Royal Gramma for 9 months and my Coral Beauty for 11 months. They've never had a single issue and the CB hasn't bothered any of the other 8 fish in the tank. All inhabitants were professionally quarantined. The RG has stayed mostly hidden in the rocks but always darts out for food. He is quite a big boy! I had not remembered this until now, but I did see him bump into the rocks on his way back in last week after feeding, but seemed ok. No external blemishes of any kind until last week (don't know if before or after the bump) when my Coral Beauty was attacking him on the sand in the middle of the tank away from the RG's home. It was only a 3-4 second thing and then the Royal Gramma sat in the sand for maybe a minute and returned to his hole. He was fine and darting out to eat the next day but I did see a small chunk of his tail fin missing. Sunday he was lying on the sand and swimming slowly along the glass on the sand. He was way too easy to catch and I put him in an acclimation box where he's sort of in typical Royal Gramma positions, sideways and upside down, yet seems very off and sluggish. He looks great still and clumsily will eat as soon as I float pellets in the box. He doesn't seem too precise getting the pellets. His tail even seems to be growing back yet I can't tell if he's ok. Here's a video of him. Let me know what you guys think. @Jay Hemdal do you have any ideas?

Video of him swimming:

 

[vetteguy53081]

I posted this on Humbl, but wanted to see if I could get a wider opinion since this seems an odd one. So I've had my Royal Gramma for 9 months and my Coral Beauty for 11 months. They've never had a single issue and the CB hasn't bothered any of the other 8 fish in the tank. All inhabitants were professionally quarantined. The RG has stayed mostly hidden in the rocks but always darts out for food. He is quite a big boy! I had not remembered this until now, but I did see him bump into the rocks on his way back in last week after feeding, but seemed ok. No external blemishes of any kind until last week (don't know if before or after the bump) when my Coral Beauty was attacking him on the sand in the middle of the tank away from the RG's home. It was only a 3-4 second thing and then the Royal Gramma sat in the sand for maybe a minute and returned to his hole. He was fine and darting out to eat the next day but I did see a small chunk of his tail find missing. Sunday he was lying on the sand and swimming slowly along the glass on the sand. He was way too easy to catch and I put him in an acclimation box where he's sort of in typical Royal Gramma positions, sideways and upside down, yet seems very off and sluggish. He looks great still and clumsily will eat as soon as I float pellets in the box. He doesn't seem too precise getting the pellets. His tail even seems to be growing back yet I can't tell if he's ok. Here's a video of him. Let me know what you guys think. @Jay Hemdal do you have any ideas?

Video of him swimming:

I see fin aggression which will heal on its own as long as there is not continued aggression

 

[Dweezilz]

I see fin aggression which will heal on its own as long as there is not continued aggression

I'm wondering if there's other internal injuries since he's so lethargic and sort of hanging around sideways and upside down and not swimming well. I put in a PVC elbow and he's not even trying to hide in it, inside the acclimation box.

 

[MnFish1]

If the behavior of the fish is different, in addition to separating from other fish - I would add a broad spectrum antibiotic

 

[vetteguy53081]

I se

I'm wondering if there's other internal injuries since he's so lethargic and sort of hanging around sideways and upside down and not swimming well. I put in a PVC elbow and he's not even trying to hide in it, inside the acclimation box.

I de e signs of healing and would keep an eye on it for continued healing

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I posted this on Humbl, but wanted to see if I could get a wider opinion since this seems an odd one. So I've had my Royal Gramma for 9 months and my Coral Beauty for 11 months. They've never had a single issue and the CB hasn't bothered any of the other 8 fish in the tank. All inhabitants were professionally quarantined. The RG has stayed mostly hidden in the rocks but always darts out for food. He is quite a big boy! I had not remembered this until now, but I did see him bump into the rocks on his way back in last week after feeding, but seemed ok. No external blemishes of any kind until last week (don't know if before or after the bump) when my Coral Beauty was attacking him on the sand in the middle of the tank away from the RG's home. It was only a 3-4 second thing and then the Royal Gramma sat in the sand for maybe a minute and returned to his hole. He was fine and darting out to eat the next day but I did see a small chunk of his tail fin missing. Sunday he was lying on the sand and swimming slowly along the glass on the sand. He was way too easy to catch and I put him in an acclimation box where he's sort of in typical Royal Gramma positions, sideways and upside down, yet seems very off and sluggish. He looks great still and clumsily will eat as soon as I float pellets in the box. He doesn't seem too precise getting the pellets. His tail even seems to be growing back yet I can't tell if he's ok. Here's a video of him. Let me know what you guys think. @Jay Hemdal do you have any ideas?

Video of him swimming:

I’m always leery of holding fish in acclimation tanks, it can be pretty stressful for cave dwellers like grammas. However, the angel is probably going to tag it again if you release it.

I suppose the fish could have suffered some internal neurological damage, but there isn’t any way to confirm that, and then, the only treatment would be time I’m afraid.

Jay

 

[Dweezilz]

I’m always leery of holding fish in acclimation tanks, it can be pretty stressful for cave dwellers like grammas. However, the angel is probably going to tag it again if you release it.

I suppose the fish could have suffered some internal neurological damage, but there isn’t any way to confirm that, and then, the only treatment would be time I’m afraid.

Jay

Is he better off just staying where he is in the acclimation box for a while until he seems stronger and the tail nip grows back a bit (assuming all that happens) or setting up a QT and putting him in there. I'd guess that transfer could be pretty stressful too. I put some PVC in there but he's not using it to hide. He's still doing ok, but still very sluggish and kinda just floating vertically, flat, and upside down then moving to another spot and doing the same. It seems like he is far from full strength but since RG's are oddballs it's hard to tell. He still looks great though externally.

 

[MnFish1]

Is he better off just staying where he is in the acclimation box for a while until he seems stronger and the tail nip grows back a bit (assuming all that happens) or setting up a QT and putting him in there. I'd guess that transfer could be pretty stressful too. I put some PVC in there but he's not using it to hide. He's still doing ok, but still very sluggish and kinda just floating vertically, flat, and upside down then moving to another spot and doing the same. It seems like he is far from full strength but since RG's are oddballs it's hard to tell. He still looks great though externally.

The behavior you're describing does not seem like odd ball behavior - it seems more like a significant symptom. Since it does not sound like a parasite (at least not one we normally see) - I would again suggest putting the fish in a separate tank and treating with a broad spectrum antibiotic. Note - I'm basing this entirely on your post above - the swimming upside down and sluggishness would not be a normal behavior - even in an acclimation box. I would say separate the fish into a separate treatment tank if you can

 

[Dweezilz]

The behavior you're describing does not seem like odd ball behavior - it seems more like a significant symptom. Since it does not sound like a parasite (at least not one we normally see) - I would again suggest putting the fish in a separate tank and treating with a broad spectrum antibiotic. Note - I'm basing this entirely on your post above - the swimming upside down and sluggishness would not be a normal behavior - even in an acclimation box. I would say separate the fish into a separate treatment tank if you can

I've never used an antibiotic. What's the best one for me to use that is fairly easy? I'll plan to setup the QT but are any safe for the DT?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is he better off just staying where he is in the acclimation box for a while until he seems stronger and the tail nip grows back a bit (assuming all that happens) or setting up a QT and putting him in there. I'd guess that transfer could be pretty stressful too. I put some PVC in there but he's not using it to hide. He's still doing ok, but still very sluggish and kinda just floating vertically, flat, and upside down then moving to another spot and doing the same. It seems like he is far from full strength but since RG's are oddballs it's hard to tell. He still looks great though externally.

A isolation tank, or even a tank divider in your DT would be better. The isolation tank would have the added benefit of being able to dose medications,.

 

[MnFish1]

I was thinking so that you can add medication. Part of the answer depends on what you can get in your area. I would say Kanaplex of Neoplex. Though its possible - dosing in a separate tank is easier to dose, and easier to care for

 

[Dweezilz]

I was thinking so that you can add medication. Part of the answer depends on what you can get in your area. I would say Kanaplex of Neoplex. Though its possible - dosing in a separate tank is easier to dose, and easier to care for

I'll setup my QT (1st time ever over 17 months, because I buy pre-QT'd only) and put him in. Need to brush up on that with a few BRS videos! I have Neoplex that's a few years old and I just ordered Kanaplex on Amazon. I'll probably use Kanaplex. I guess there's a first time for everything right?! I'll dive into this and hope it goes well. Thanks for the help everyone. Fingers crossed.

 

[Dweezilz]

So I ended up not putting him in the QT because of an issue I had with the QT tank (sons grad party in the basement incident! ). I had to buy a new tank which I did and it's ready for water again. Here is the update (cross posted to HF):

So the Gramma has been in the acclimation box with a PVC for hiding (it's a fairly big box) for 6 weeks. He never hid in the PVC and continued to only swim vertically up and down or lay flat to sleep. His fins all healed perfectly from the Coral Beauty attack and he has clumsily fed well darting up to the surface to get pellets every time I fed. I didn't medicate the DT, but did put in some stress coat a few times and vitamins. All the other fish ignored him. I finally released him Saturday and he swam out of the box on his own but has only continued to swim in a corner straight up/down, sit on the glass pointing up for a while at the surface, then flipping over and swimming down to the sand or middle, hanging there pointing down and continuing this pattern back up and down every 5-10 minutes. He has switched corners a few times but my engineer goby poked at him when he got in front of the cave (he pokes at a couple of the fish if they get too close) so the gramma went back to the other right corner. None of the other fish have bothered him for 2 days. It's hard for him to eat this way since food floats away quickly in the DT unless I turn all the pumps off. He doesn't seem to want to move laterally or swim horizontally at all. He looks 100% perfect and swims well up and down only, making the turns fine.

If he had some sort of internal illness, wouldn't he most likely be dead after 6 weeks or show signs externally? I wanted to give him a few days to see if maybe he's just hiding out up in the corner like they do when you first introduce them. I wonder if he's sustained an actual spinal injury and won't get better. I have my QT setup so I could move him, medicate (if that even makes sense to do), and see if he has to live in that 20g for the rest of his life or not. I'd hate to have to maintain that and have to get another tank. I could leave him as is and see what happens.

Anyway, any advice would be welcome. Weird situation.