Reef Factory - My opinion!

[Armt350]

Can't speak to the quality of the items you mentions, but I do have a pair of reef factory flare pro M lights arriving today or tomorrow. I'll let you know how they go.

 

[CasperOe]

Can't speak to the quality of the items you mentions, but I do have a pair of reef factory flare pro M lights arriving today or tomorrow. I'll let you know how they go.

I don't consider myself as a "fan boy"- far from it - but I would have liked to go down that route..

I did end up with Radions instead "because that's what everyone uses".. I hope you'll be happy with them, let us know how you get on! And if you don't like them, swap with me

 

[CasperOe]

I think this is my issue with a lot of this automation tech.
This isn't aimed at reef factory specifically in any way I must add.
I know we are using hobby grade equipment & salinity probes are finicky but a vague "trend" isn't good enough for me.
£300+ for misinformation doesn't appeal.
My £25 refractometer can give me a precise reading(if correctly calibrated of course).
It's more work which is the trade off of course

I agree! The RF Salinity Guardian went out the window once the fourth probe arrived broken. I have since added a salinity probe to my Apex which is mostly just there..

I test using a Milwaukee MA887 Digital Refractometer instead although I do have my eye on one of the Tropic Marin Hygrometers.. Had one, but I broke it!

 

[Snoopy 67]

Champion Lighting handles Reef Factory.
I got my fleece roller there.
Nice, easy to use & compact design.
I only wish the float valve was visible when installed so I could "see what's happening".

 

[Armt350]

I don't consider myself as a "fan boy"- far from it - but I would have liked to go down that route..

I did end up with Radions instead "because that's what everyone uses".. I hope you'll be happy with them, let us know how you get on! And if you don't like them, swap with me

S the lights arrived and here is a review with my initial impressions.
Reef flare Pro review

 

[shadyraro]

TBF, what you want is a trend; whether it is 1dKH off constantly doesn't really matter too much- as long as it is constant Most importantly is that you know- and then you can take it from there..

What are you comparing it against if I may ask?

Mine is about 0.5-0.6 off my Hanna checker. As long as I know- then I am quite happy! it's about the trend for me, i don't really care if it read 8,9 or 10 - as long as I know what's going on..

My KHK is also 1dkh off and the problem I have with this is my actions.
My alk is set to 8dkh and I've set up my actions to add or skip dosages to keep it in this range depending on the test results. My doser doses alk, cal and mag and are all set to different values.
For example if my test result is 8.2dkh my doser will skip 100% of the next dose, If my test result is 7.5dkh my doser will add an additional 75% of the next dose.
So you can see the issue here if my KHK is reading 1dkh higher with alk currently reading 9.3, my actions are basically void and my tank hasn't dosed any nutrients for over a week now because it thinks the alk reading is too high.
This is frustrating because I have to manually test more now to check my parameters, and the whole point of me purchasing the khk in the first place was to automate as much of the testing as possible without any issues.
To call this frustrating is an understatement, the unit is only 5 months old and Reef Factory need to do better!

 

[gbroadbridge]

My KHK is also 1dkh off and the problem I have with this is my actions.
My alk is set to 8dkh and I've set up my actions to add or skip dosages to keep it in this range depending on the test results. My doser doses alk, cal and mag and are all set to different values.
For example if my test result is 8.2dkh my doser will skip 100% of the next dose, If my test result is 7.5dkh my doser will add an additional 75% of the next dose.
So you can see the issue here if my KHK is reading 1dkh higher with alk currently reading 9.3, my actions are basically void and my tank hasn't dosed any nutrients for over a week now because it thinks the alk reading is too high.
This is frustrating because I have to manually test more now to check my parameters, and the whole point of me purchasing the khk in the first place was to automate as much of the testing as possible without any issues.
To call this frustrating is an understatement, the unit is only 5 months old and Reef Factory need to do better!

I don't understand the problem.

KHK provides consistent readings, so if it's reading high it will always be reading high and you can safely let it dose based on those results.

As long as your actions are setup correctly it will maintain whatever number you want.

Keep in mind that the actual number is unimportant, only stability matters.

 

[shadyraro]

I don't understand the problem.

KHK provides consistent readings, so if it's reading high it will always be reading high and you can safely let it dose based on those results.

As long as your actions are setup correctly it will maintain whatever number you want.

Keep in mind that the actual number is unimportant, only stability matters.

The problem is the khk reading is incorrect!
I have checked my alk with hanna and salifert test kits and both readings were 8.1, where as my khk is reading 9+.
So in other words, my doser via the actions at an 8.1 reading should be dosing a required amount of alk, cal and mag that I have set.
But because I've set my doser to skip 100% of doses above 8.2, that's exactly what it's been doing.

 

[gbroadbridge]

The problem is the khk reading is incorrect!
I have checked my alk with hanna and salifert test kits and both readings were 8.1, where as my khk is reading 9+.
So in other words, my doser via the actions at an 8.1 reading should be dosing a required amount of alk, cal and mag that I have set.
But because I've set my doser to skip 100% of doses above 8.2, that's exactly what it's been doing.

You have 2 options.

1) Set an offset in the khk so that it agrees with your other tests; or
2) Change your actions so that they use a kh of 9 as the baseline.

If the device is reading incorrectly it is going to either be incorrect dilution of the reagent
or incorrect calibration of the sample and titrant pumps, dirty ph probe or incorrect ph probe calibration.

They are simple devices, but they do need to be setup correctly.

 

[Koty]

I have the RF X3 dosing pump, which works well. My only issue is with the presentation of the parameters: They show a line graph with equal distance between the data points regardless of the time interval between them.

Although there is only a subtle difference here, this is how it should look:

 

[Darklad]

I own the PH meter and KH Keeper Plus..my exprince with reef factory so far is bad .... support replies isnt something I'm happy with and both devices are not working properly... for the price tag I should not get a leaking cheap needle nor a pump in KH Keeper Plus that needs to be pushed to make it work out of the box
boths probs are bad... I sent so many screenshots and videos to reef factory support they ignored many and kept asking me to "seal" the red needle ignoring that the green top pump is not working nor the off reading of KH and PH. That said, would I recommend reef factory products to a friend ? Nope

 

[IPT]

Well, I ignored the bad reviews in favor of the good ones as all the units available seem to have WiFi connection issues. This one checked all the boxes for me so I got one (KH Keeper plus) and this is my experience so far.

So far, I am excited, but frustrated. The setup took A LOT longer than I thought it would. I had some issues getting the Wifi connected. Some was on my end not remembering the proper login password, but even after that I had issues. This was resolved after reading a thread and setting up the Smart Reef account prior, then logging in through that account and using the "add a device". It's been pretty good since I got it logged in with solid connection both locally and remotely sans a few short disconnects. I tried updating the software and that failed twice so far so I am still using whatever it came with. Trying to set it up via the recommended method they have on Youtube was a no go for me.

As for the unit mechanically, well, it's been interesting to say the least. The dosing pump (that brings the water in from the aquarium) just clicked and didn't move or pump at all. Seems that is was stuck or something and after many attempts it finally freed up and pumps well now. That was concerning. Then I had issues getting the reagent to draw up. That pump wouldn't fully draw the reagent up from where I had the reservoir placed (on the floor with the unit about 16 inches above it). I had to move the reagent container up to being the same level as the unit and now it draws fine, except (see below).

I had several issues with the pump calibrations too. Using the scale method as described and recommended, I NEVER got the same reading even once for the aquarium water calibration volume. If I recall the weights (they have you measure the calibration amount by weight and divide it by the weight of seawater). If I recall it varied from 2.12 up to almost 2.5. That was a large deviation. I did 10 trials (time consuming) and averaged it. Honestly, it still pulled too much liquid every time. I ended up using the beaker and fudging the calibration number the scale should have provided until I was able to do the "accuracy test" and it distributed the correct amount (50ml I think). Clearly I should not have had to do that, but I did find a workaround and it's been accurate since. Then calibrating the reagent pump I noticed air bubbles in the fluid coming out of the pump. After closer inspection I noted they were in fact only after the pump. More on this later, but I will say they are sending me a replacement for that dosing head. Then, the pump that empties the beaker was not pulling up the fluid and had tons of bubbles. I couldn't believe it. After closer inspection I found the rigid plastic tube was cracked at the top allowing air in and breaking suction. I swapped that tube with the one that adds the tank water (since that doesn't need to be airtight) and it worked fine. I probably cracked it taking the beaker out during the setup by not raising the tubes up high enough bending the tubes as I removed the beaker.

As for the PH calibration, wow, some crazy stuff. The PH device looks snazzy and more fancy than the PH pen I have. Calibration appeared to go smoothly for the most part. Once the fluid was at the proper temp (25 C I think) I did the calibration. The accuracy test was good after a trial or two. However, when I run test now it consistently tells me that the tank water PH is WAY high. Seems to vary from 8.5 all the way up to 8.98. There is no way my tank has a PH of 9. I also have Reef Keeper with a PH monitor and for the last year it's shown my PH to consistently be between about 7.95 up to 8.4 depending on my last calibration. The KH keeper has never shown it to be under 8.5.

So far, the actual KH measure has generally been low. I'm getting readings of around 7.98 up to about 8.12. In comparison, today my HANNA tester (with pretty new reagent) was 8.3 and a Salifert test came back at 8.3 as well. So I'd say the KH keeper is about 2 units low.

So, at the end of the day I am digging having the ability to test and monitor remotely. I didn't think it would be a big deal but since my tank is at my office and I am often not around it I have found this capability very nice. I actually wish I would have done it earlier.

I have only had the unit for a week so the jury is still out as far as I am concerned. I think it needs to run some to break in and get stability. I am concerned one head started off stuck, and another is for sure not working properly. The PH thing is just wacky, but I wonder about calibrating at one temperature then testing tank water at another temperature. I'm getting some extra fluid and will play more with this.

As for customer service, I used the contact us page on the website and opened two cases. One for the cracked tube, and one for the bubbles in the line. I sent pictures of the lines with the bubbles. This was on Saturday and Sunday. To their credit I had a response today. I would have liked it to have been yesterday, but based on different time zones it was reasonable enough for me. I was told there is an extra tube supplied in the box (found that after looking but my fix is working fine so I will save that extra one) and for the pump they recognized the problem and said they will send the new pump head once I provided the info they needed (shipping address, proof of purchase, serial #, etc).

I like the unit, the price was OK, and it looks like it will provide consistent measures. Accuracy so far is questionable, but there are still variables to be addressed (like the PH and the reagent pump not functioning properly). It does offer an option to do a +/- to the readings to get it accurate, but honestly I don't care if it is dead accurate, but I do need it to be consistent. Time will tell how the rest of the customer service follow up will be (so far it's been good) and how the unit will hold up over time. Hopefully well, because I like the size of it, the price of it (sort of - expensive, but it's good relative to the competitors) and the capabilities it has. Fingers crossed it all pans out to smooth sailing. I highly doubt any of these types of devices are plug and play so it is what it is.

 

[gbroadbridge]

As for the PH calibration, wow, some crazy stuff. The PH device looks snazzy and more fancy than the PH pen I have. Calibration appeared to go smoothly for the most part. Once the fluid was at the proper temp (25 C I think) I did the calibration. The accuracy test was good after a trial or two. However, when I run test now it consistently tells me that the tank water PH is WAY high. Seems to vary from 8.5 all the way up to 8.98. There is no way my tank has a PH of 9. I also have Reef Keeper with a PH monitor and for the last year it's shown my PH to consistently be between about 7.95 up to 8.4 depending on my last calibration. The KH keeper has never shown it to be under 8.5.

Keep in mind that the pH probe is not there to measure the pH of your tank water - its there to measure the pH of the water as the acid titrant is added.

The probe is calibrated with ph 4 and 7 buffers as the endpoint that determines Alkalinity is around 4.5pH.
It will be accurate at that ph level. It will not be accurate for measuring the water sample from the tank.

So far, the actual KH measure has generally been low. I'm getting readings of around 7.98 up to about 8.12. In comparison, today my HANNA tester (with pretty new reagent) was 8.3 and a Salifert test came back at 8.3 as well. So I'd say the KH keeper is about 2 units low.

If the kH is measured low it could mean that the titrant is too concentrated. When you diluted the reagent how did you measure the RODI water? Ideally you measure by volume not weight.

In any case +/- 0.3 is no big deal, simply adjust using the interface to match the Hanna if you wish.

 

[shadyraro]

If the kH is measured low it could mean that the titrant is too concentrated. When you diluted the reagent how did you measure the RODI water? Ideally you measure by volume not weight.

In any case +/- 0.3 is no big deal, simply adjust using the interface to match the Hanna if you wish.

I thought you were supposed to measure the RODI using the scales?
Maybe that’s were I’ve been going wrong as I’ve been using the scales to measure both.

 

[IPT]

If the kH is measured low it could mean that the titrant is too concentrated. When you diluted the reagent how did you measure the RODI water? Ideally you measure by volume not weight.

In any case +/- 0.3 is no big deal, simply adjust using the interface to match the Hanna if you wish.

Yes, when mixing the reagent I measured the regent via volume. It is a 1:9 ratio. So 1 cup of reagent to 9 cups of RO/DI water.

Interesting on the PH. I recognize it is calibrated low (4 and 7) but still expected it to be accurate for the tank. At the end of the day it doesn't matter to me (the PH on the KH Keeper) as long as the KH value is good. Logically since we are using an ending PH of 4.5 I would think the starting value would be important. I would expect that it would take more solution taking a PH to 4.5 if you started at a PH of 9 vs a PH of 8. Again, it doesn't matter to me as long as it consistently gets a reliable KH # .

 

[IPT]

I thought you were supposed to measure the RODI using the scales?
Maybe that’s were I’ve been going wrong as I’ve been using the scales to measure both.

I think you use the weight when you Calibrate the reagent pump, but you use volume to mix up the actual reagent fluid. 1 part concentrated reagent to 9 parts RO/DI water.

 

[IPT]

I own the PH meter and KH Keeper Plus..my exprince with reef factory so far is bad .... support replies isnt something I'm happy with and both devices are not working properly... for the price tag I should not get a leaking cheap needle nor a pump in KH Keeper Plus that needs to be pushed to make it work out of the box
boths probs are bad... I sent so many screenshots and videos to reef factory support they ignored many and kept asking me to "seal" the red needle ignoring that the green top pump is not working nor the off reading of KH and PH. That said, would I recommend reef factory products to a friend ? Nope

Strange. I have had good responses from the support. They responded within 2 business days to me. They also replied again today noting they have sent the replacement pump head (the day after I sent them the shipping and proof of purchase info).

As for the PH probe, see the conversation about my issues. It may not be reading your tank water PH correct, but it may not be "bad" and still doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

 

[jdu98a]

I'm confused. Do you recommend RF or did you "sell it all and replaced it with Neptune Apex. Never looked back!"

 

[JNalley]

I don't know. When I saw RF was a thing and that it was going to be coming to the US, I kind of got excited that another ecosystem was going to be available. Then I saw the price point, and I went with Hydros instead: Control x10, Control iV, AutoFeeder, and 2 Power bars. I control my skimmer with a skimmer sensor, my Kalk reactor with both the stirring and dosing, monitor temp (already had an inkbird for temp control, but I wouldn't feel bad about buying another power strip to let Hydros automate that either), monitor salinity, and feed my tank multiple times per day.

Just to get Alkalinity testing + dosing automation, and temperature control, the cost of an RF system is nearly 50% more than a Hydros system:

Reef Factory:

KH Keeper Plus $771.99
Dosing Pump $126.99
PH Meter $242.99
Thermo Control Smart Temperature Controller $174.99

Total $1316.96



CoralVue

Control X10 $799.99
Control iV $129.99
Wifi Power Strip $39.99

Total $969.97


And the Hydros can actually do many more things with this configuration than the RF system can. It's totally crazy to me that two companies offering pretty much the same functionality can be so far apart. And before anyone goes saying "quality," the Hydros systems are built like bricks, and they look decent enough. According to the OP's post, some of the RF stuff is flimsy and feels cheaply made. The Control iV is 3D printed, and it's light, but it feels solid and is mounted on the wall with 2 screws...

 

[HSLSaltwater]

I'm confused. Do you recommend RF or did you "sell it all and replaced it with Neptune Apex. Never looked back!"

I’d love to know this as well. Want to get in to an ecosystem and want as much as possible from one company to not have to many applications for my tank setup.