Red Mandarin Breeding

Earl Karl · Nov 18, 2017

So I plan to breed Red Mandarins, but I couldn't find much info online. I have a list of questions I want to ask.
1. How can I get a pair? Do I need to buy multiple and pair them off? Or can I just buy a male and a female? I know the male has to be bigger though.
2. Is there anything I have to do to trigger the mating dance routine? Temp., water parameters, light intensity, etc.?
3. How many eggs will they produce?
4. Can I keep the fry with the parents? Will the parents eat the fry or are they just picky eaters?
5. How do I feed the fry after they depleted their yolk sac? Is Zooplankton good enough? How many times to feed a day?
6. How fast will the fry grow to maturity?
7. Will the fry attain the red colors? Or is there a chance that they can be born with orange coloration?
There might be more questions I want to ask, but these are the most important for me.
My tank setup is a 29 gallon standard. It is a macroalgae tank, so full of copepods and amphipods. There is just an air filter, tons of macroalgae for nutrient reduction. I have the Chinese black box LED, it's called the MarsAqua 300w Dimmable (got it from Amazon, very high output light). I plan to put an IceCap 2K (with foam cover) for flow, right now running some powerhead. It's 18 inches tall, however not sure if it's tall enough for the mating ritual. 0 ammonia and nitrites, >10 nitrates. Calcium is 400, Magnesium is 1300, and alkalinity is 10. I have a Snowflake Eel living in there temporarily, it will move to a much larger tank. It is just there to keep feeding the beneficial bacteria. Water is kept at 78-80 degrees. Tons of live rock, bare bottom. Ten gallon ready just in case I need to remove parents.

S&SReef · Nov 18, 2017

Check out ORA captive bred Mandarins. They did this a while back. I presume it was either too difficult or not profitable to continue as the captive breds were up to 4x the cost of a wild one, the tradeoff is they ate pellets as they were reared on a diet of commercial fish food early on. I would have gladly forked over the extra money for one but they were only available for about a year or so.

S&SReef · Nov 18, 2017

Also I think even though its a macro tank a pair will pick a 29 clean of pods pretty quickly.

jefra · Nov 18, 2017

Earl Karl said:
So I plan to breed Red Mandarins, but I couldn't find much info online. I have a list of questions I want to ask.
1. How can I get a pair? Do I need to buy multiple and pair them off? Or can I just buy a male and a female? I know the male has to be bigger though.
2. Is there anything I have to do to trigger the mating dance routine? Temp., water parameters, light intensity, etc.?
3. How many eggs will they produce?
4. Can I keep the fry with the parents? Will the parents eat the fry or are they just picky eaters?
5. How do I feed the fry after they depleted their yolk sac? Is Zooplankton good enough? How many times to feed a day?
6. How fast will the fry grow to maturity?
7. Will the fry attain the red colors? Or is there a chance that they can be born with orange coloration?
There might be more questions I want to ask, but these are the most important for me.
My tank setup is a 29 gallon standard. It is a macroalgae tank, so full of copepods and amphipods. There is just an air filter, tons of macroalgae for nutrient reduction. I have the Chinese black box LED, it's called the MarsAqua 300w Dimmable (got it from Amazon, very high output light). I plan to put an IceCap 2K (with foam cover) for flow, right now running some powerhead. It's 18 inches tall, however not sure if it's tall enough for the mating ritual. 0 ammonia and nitrites, >10 nitrates. Calcium is 400, Magnesium is 1300, and alkalinity is 10. I have a Snowflake Eel living in there temporarily, it will move to a much larger tank. It is just there to keep feeding the beneficial bacteria. Water is kept at 78-80 degrees. Tons of live rock, bare bottom. Ten gallon ready just in case I need to remove parents.

1. You can purchase them separately, mature red mandarins are sexually dimorphic. Males are larger with a long, pronounced dorsal fin.
2. Tank height is essential in triggering a spawning event for mandarins. 18" seems too short, but mating would still be possible even if not ideal. The dimmable light you mentioned will be useful since mandarins court during sunset.
3. A single clutch can produce upwards of 600 eggs but varies.
4. The fry will absolutely require their own tank, with kriesel tanks being preferred. You will likely need several additional tanks to culture various food sources to raise them (phytoplankton, rotifiers, and copepod nauplii).
5. The egg yolk will last for a few days maximum.
6. Fry metamorphosize around 14 days and don't resemble their parents until 8-9 weeks or so.
7. I would expect all juveniles to have their parents' coloration.

WesleyC · Nov 18, 2017

Earl Karl said:
2. Is there anything I have to do to trigger the mating dance routine? Temp., water parameters, light intensity, etc.?

As far as I've seen, as long as the environment is good and with plentiful of food available at all time, they start spawning. I had my bonded pair of ruby red dragonet in a QT tank, being trained to eat baby brine shrimp for quite awhile and they didn't seem to be interested in each other. As soon as I put them into my main tank that has pods literally crawling everywhere, they started spawning within a week. Also, I've notice they do like to "do" it in the dark.

Paul B · Nov 18, 2017

Red dragonettes, ruby red dragonettes, mandarins and pipefish all spawn frequently as mine do. My tank is only 14" high so that is no problem but my tank is also 100 gallons and 46 years old. A 29 gallon tank won't work. Even in my old 100 gallon I feed them every day with this feeder which I invented. I hatch and add new born brine shrimp every day and those fish feast.
You need do nothing else but get a male and female, they are not picky and the sexes are easy to tell apart.
I just let them spawn in my reef and never tried to collect or raise them so I can't answer that. Here is a video of the feeder.

Earl Karl · Nov 18, 2017

Thanks for the answer guys! I see it is possible. I'd like to address some things though.
1. I basically have unlimited amount of food. I culture my own pods. If mandarins picked off all of them, I will simply add more. I don't care how my mandarins eat. As long they eat, I'm happy. I don't want them to eat something they don't wanna. If they eat other stuff, great. If they don't, I don't mind.
2. I have kept mandarins before, just never breed them. Otherwise, this would not be something I would consider.
3. I am breeding for fun, I just want to try something new. Perhaps, I can sell them one day even though I don't plan too. I would just give them away.
4. There is a ten gallon ready for the parents just in case as I mentioned.
5. I have breed fish before, but for freshwater. I know I asked about keeping parents with fry, but I kept mouthbrooders and parents that care for their fry like discus. Just didn't know about mandarins.
So apparently I need 100 gallons? Dam. I basically have a fish room, but I don't want drop money on another 100 gallons just to breed these guys. I'm just going to try a 29, but if not possible, I will put them in a rubbermaid tub. At least, I already got the foods that you guys mentioned, so that's a start.
So everything is good, except tank size is a bit iffy. Well, even though you gave me good answers, I would like to hear more from you guys!

jefra · Nov 18, 2017

You absolutely don't need 100 gallons, especially if you have sufficient food sources. Most adult mandarins will readily accept ova if you're in a pinch.

Paul B · Nov 18, 2017

Here is what they look like spawning. I wish you the best of luck.

Earl Karl · Nov 18, 2017

Hopefully, tank size isn't an issue. Otherwise I'm set. From the picture @Paul B sent me, I see the female mandarin has a swollen belly. Something else to expect I see. However, I have one last question.
So I was talking to Bob Fenner of WetWebMedia. He has helped a lot as well as showing me a great article. However, he suggests including branching acros (I have an ugly birdsnest in my predator reef) in the tank to set up habitat. Is this truly necessary? I want this tank to be pure macroalgae and adding acros would just add another worry to my system. However, if I need to, I will. If I don't, I'll just keep this stress free.

Paul B · Nov 18, 2017

Branching acros are not necessary.
Eating some white worms

Orbela · Feb 6, 2018

Paul B said:
Branching acros are not necessary.
Eating some white worms

What size net do you use?

Paul B · Feb 6, 2018

What size net do I use for what?

Orbela · Feb 7, 2018

Paul B said:
What size net do I use for what?

Sorry so vague for the bbs feeder? I saw it was panty hose but I didn’t know the whole comes indifferent size as well

Paul B · Feb 8, 2018

I don't know much about panty hose and I have been using the same pair for a mesh for years. (No I don't wear them) I just found a pair with the smallest holes and they work fine. If you pour shrimp through it and they all go right through, the net is to big. Also don't stretch the stockings, the holes get big.

Orbela · Feb 9, 2018

Paul B said:
I don't know much about panty hose and I have been using the same pair for a mesh for years. (No I don't wear them) I just found a pair with the smallest holes and they work fine. If you pour shrimp through it and they all go right through, the net is to big. Also don't stretch the stockings, the holes get big.

Thanks!