Raising nitrates...check my math

[Fiziksgeek]

All my parameters are looking good. Have more algae than I would like, though primarily on the sand. Phosphates are reading .05, Nitrates 0. Tested a couple times using Hanna checkers. My current understanding is that the next course of action might be to raise my nitrates to maybe 5?

Read enough thread to confuse myself. Looking at purchasing Duda Energy's Sodium Nitrate off Amazon.

Amazon product

If using the plant calculator:

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

My total systems is ~450 gallons. If I mixed a solution of 1lb (453grams) to 1 gallon (3785mml), the results say 1 ml of solution will increases nitrate by .04. So I fi I want to go to 5, that would be 125ml total, I assume I should spread that out of a period of days.

So, Basic questions, did I understand everything correctly use the calculator properly? Can you even dissolve 1lb in 1 gallon? Or what is a good mixing ratio? Is 5 a good target for nitrates? Over what period should I try to achieve the target?

 

[Screwgunner]

Feed frozen food it will put nitrates in your system pellets and flake put more phosphates in.

 

[KStatefan]

I would not use industrial grade

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Feed frozen food it will put nitrates in your system pellets and flake put more phosphates in.

I do feed some frozen, primarily mysis. However, I also feed a small amount of pellets in an automatic feeder during the day. The tank is also still relatively new, filled in November with live rock and sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater. I started with a dozen chromis and a couple other small fish. More coming from Dr. Reef in a month or so.

If I wanted phosphates to lower, I could run some GFO, but from what I have been reading these days the recommendation is some nitrates, 2-10, and some phosphates, .02 - 0.1. I have the phosphates, but no nitrates. Some threads/articles have indicated that an imbalance on nitrate to phosphate can support lots of algae growth. Could be wrong here.

In any case, if raising nitrates is the goal, wouldn't using an additive that I can dose in a controlled way be better than dumping extra food in ?

 

[Fiziksgeek]

I would not use industrial grade

I assume this recommendation is because of concern of it having something else, like amonia in the formula? This came from a thread where people had used this brand with success. So although its possible, I am not the guinea pig!

 

[Screwgunner]

No nitrates = dinos to much phosphate = algea. .05 to.1 5 to 10 are good numbers. These number are hard to hit . In our little systems.

 

[Screwgunner]

I am chemical free . That's up to you my friend

 

[gbroadbridge]

I do feed some frozen, primarily mysis. However, I also feed a small amount of pellets in an automatic feeder during the day. The tank is also still relatively new, filled in November with live rock and sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater. I started with a dozen chromis and a couple other small fish. More coming from Dr. Reef in a month or so.

If I wanted phosphates to lower, I could run some GFO, but from what I have been reading these days the recommendation is some nitrates, 2-10, and some phosphates, .02 - 0.1. I have the phosphates, but no nitrates. Some threads/articles have indicated that an imbalance on nitrate to phosphate can support lots of algae growth. Could be wrong here.

In any case, if raising nitrates is the goal, wouldn't using an additive that I can dose in a controlled way be better than dumping extra food in ?

I would not be dosing anything to a 2 month old tank.

You're just asking for trouble.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

I am chemical free . That's up to you my friend

Obviously, that would be the ideal situation....but I suspect that you are very much in the minority in being able to achieve that...So you put nothing in your water other than salt? You don't dost anything? Or are there some "chemicals" that you just try to stay away from?

I would not be dosing anything to a 2 month old tank.

You're just asking for trouble.

Nearly 3 months, filled in early November, haha. And I might agree if I started with dry/dead rock and sand. However, the live rock/sand, shipped in water, really does give the system a huge jump start.

 

[KStatefan]

I assume this recommendation is because of concern of it having something else, like amonia in the formula? This came from a thread where people had used this brand with success. So although its possible, I am not the guinea pig!

Yes the unkown is what worried me. I started with food grade Sodium Nitrate then switched to Calcium Nitrate.

My math show a little bit different

453 grams NaNO3 / 3785 ml water since NaNO3 is 73% Nitrate that leaves you 331 grams NO3 / 3785 ml water. 1 ml of that solution contain 0.087 grams or 87 mg of nitrate. 87 mg / 1703 liters gives you 0.05 mg/l ≈ ppm increase for each ml dosed

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No nitrates = dinos to much phosphate = algea. .

I do not know that I agree with that simplistic analysis. Many people's aquaria fit one or both without either issue.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am chemical free . That's up to you my friend

Wow, pretty hard to keep an aquarium filled with nothing but chemicals, isn't it? lol

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Wow, pretty hard to keep an aquarium filled with nothing but chemicals, isn't it? lol

Spoken by a true chemist! I might break it down a bit smaller if I let my mind wonder...haha

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Yes the unkown is what worried me. I started with food grade Sodium Nitrate then switched to Calcium Nitrate.

My math show a little bit different

453 grams NaNO3 / 3785 ml water since NaNO3 is 73% Nitrate that leaves you 331 grams NO3 / 3785 ml water. 1 ml of that solution contain 0.087 grams or 87 mg of nitrate. 87 mg / 1703 liters gives you 0.05 mg/l ≈ ppm increase for each ml dosed

Easy enough to get Loudwolf's. I guess I was initially worried I would need a lot, and therefor was looking for bulk quantities...

I think what you are pointing out is that even the "99% pure" is not really pure, its 73%. So for example, if i wanted 10g of nitrate, I should actually use 13.75g of the calcium nitrate? (13.75 x .73=10). This makes sense, and I guess if I never knew it, I would be better be under dosing and that might be better than overdosing.

I was using pounds for the weight, as that if how Loudwolf's comes. Half or full pound containers. Let me skip the gallons, I can measure my rodi in liters.

If I use the 73% factor and get the half pound bottle of Loudwolf's, using 1 liters of water would yield a solution of 165mg nitrate in 1000 ml of rodi = ~0.165 grams of nitrate per ml of solution. Divide by my tank system volume 450 gallon or 1703 liters, means for each ml dosed, the tank gets ~0.097 ppm nitrate increase. If my goal is 5 ppm, then I need to dose 51.5ml, is that correct?

If I could mix up a full half pound bottle at one, that would make it easy, but if the math is right, I Would initially need only 50 ml of the 1000ml batch. So maybe better to weight it out and mix up something weaker.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Easy enough to get Loudwolf's. I guess I was initially worried I would need a lot, and therefor was looking for bulk quantities...

I think what you are pointing out is that even the "99% pure" is not really pure, its 73%. So for example, if i wanted 10g of nitrate, I should actually use 13.75g of the calcium nitrate? (13.75 x .73=10). This makes sense, and I guess if I never knew it, I would be better be under dosing and that might be better than overdosing.

I was using pounds for the weight, as that if how Loudwolf's comes. Half or full pound containers. Let me skip the gallons, I can measure my rodi in liters.

If I use the 73% factor and get the half pound bottle of Loudwolf's, using 1 liters of water would yield a solution of 165mg nitrate in 1000 ml of rodi = ~0.165 grams of nitrate per ml of solution. Divide by my tank system volume 450 gallon or 1703 liters, means for each ml dosed, the tank gets ~0.097 ppm nitrate increase. If my goal is 5 ppm, then I need to dose 51.5ml, is that correct?

If I could mix up a full half pound bottle at one, that would make it easy, but if the math is right, I Would initially need only 50 ml of the 1000ml batch. So maybe better to weight it out and mix up something weaker.

Not sure where the 73% came from, but pure calcium nitrate is 75.6% nitrate by weight.

I hate checking folks math because it can lead to mistakes on my part that could have serious consequences. I certainly do it when there is no better option, but in this case, I recommend this calculator:

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

www.theplantedtank.co.uk

Use the entry for nitrate from potassium nitrate, which is generally close enough. If you are especially exacting (which is unnecessary since you will determine a final daily dose by trial and error), you should multiply the final volume needed to add to the tank by 0.81 (so instead of dosing 1 mL, for example, you dose 0.81 mL) since calcium nitrate is a little higher proportion nitrate by weight than is potassium nitrate.

 

[KStatefan]

Easy enough to get Loudwolf's. I guess I was initially worried I would need a lot, and therefor was looking for bulk quantities...

I think what you are pointing out is that even the "99% pure" is not really pure, its 73%. So for example, if i wanted 10g of nitrate, I should actually use 13.75g of the calcium nitrate? (13.75 x .73=10). This makes sense, and I guess if I never knew it, I would be better be under dosing and that might be better than overdosing.

Calcium Nitrate will not be the same it has a different chemical composition.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Not sure where the 73% came from, but pure calcium nitrate is 75.6% nitrate by weight.

I hate checking folks math because it can lead to mistakes on my part that could have serious consequences. I certainly do it when there is no better option, but in this case, I recommend this calculator:

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

www.theplantedtank.co.uk

Use the entry for nitrate from potassium nitrate, which is generally close enough. If you are especially exacting (which is unnecessary since you will determine a final daily dose by trial and error), you should multiply the final volume needed to add to the tank by 0.81 (so instead of dosing 1 mL, for example, you dose 0.81 mL) since calcium nitrate is a little higher proportion nitrate by weight than is potassium nitrate.

Calcium Nitrate will not be the same it has a different chemical composition.

OK, I see the difference now. The initial product I references was sodium nitrate and Loudwolf's was calcium nitrate. So 2 different percentage yields. I was initially appealing the factor up front, but Randy is right, could just as easily apply it at the end.

Any recommendations for speed at which nitrates increase? If I dose for 1ppm increase day is that OK?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, I see the difference now. The initial product I references was sodium nitrate and Loudwolf's was calcium nitrate. So 2 different percentage yields. I was initially appealing the factor up front, but Randy is right, could just as easily apply it at the end.

Any recommendations for speed at which nitrates increase? If I dose for 1ppm increase day is that OK?

I usually recommend 2 ppm per day to start, and that is rarely too much.