Question about 30” depth SPS lighting

[C. Eymann]

Could do a mix of both 400s and 250s, maybe run 20k bulbs in the 400s and 10-14ks in the 250w?

Several of my clients back in the day with large 200-300 gallon reefs that were taller tanks were lit with 1000w haildes. One in particular I wanna say was a 7ft × 30× 30" tank and two 1000w haildes in large sunlight supply reflectors hung 18"-24" off the water surface provided more than enough light /spread for the entire tank.

Even if I were lighting a standard 120 4ftx2ftx2ft that was going to be SPS dom, I'd much rather do 400s than 250s.

Just my .02

 

[Will Wohlers]

I totally agree. Don't get me wrong. All metal halide watt setups are imho superior. There's a reason they are still around, 250 watt is a wonderful bulb especially overdriven but the 400 is a powerhouse and that's something you need on a deep tank of sps. I like best of both worlds and let halide do the lifting and led at night to show off what the halide has grown. There's something about the pop of led that just can't be matched with t5 or halide but halide renders better colors for the led to show off plus growth is far superior.

 

[C. Eymann]

I totally agree. Don't get me wrong. All metal halide watt setups are imho superior. There's a reason they are still around, 250 watt is a wonderful bulb especially overdriven but the 400 is a powerhouse and that's something you need on a deep tank of sps. I like best of both worlds and let halide do the lifting and led at night to show off what the halide has grown. There's something about the pop of led that just can't be matched with t5 or halide but halide renders better colors for the led to show off plus growth is far superior.

+1 - Very well said ^^^^

 

[P.kapp]

For the budget- Orphek Light bars (OR2) series

I’m hoping to stay between $1000 and $1300 for a light budget. If I could pick up some slightly used lights, I wouldn’t be opposed to that either. I know that may be tough though.
I googled the orphek OR2’s last night. Are they all that thin light bar style? I’m assuming they must have great spread. Do you think the 36” version ran across the 44” length of the tank, with maybe 4 to 5 fixtures work?
Again, thank you guys for your help!

 

[P.kapp]

Here is a comparison on the top LED makes. Also, ReeFi Duo Extremes are on special $100 Off and 3yr waranty. I have six units 14” over a 72x36x27. #ReeFiLove

I checked out the ReeFi lights too. They look awesome on the tanks that I have seen pics of (like the ones you posted ). They may be too far out of budget though, unfortunately. Thanks for your input!

 

[P.kapp]

Do you have an idea of where you want to keep coral? If it will be under the entire footprint, then you have a large and complex problem to solve. If mostly down the middle in a 24 or 30" row, then this is easier and you can let the front/back/whatever get dimmer.

To do the whole tank, you are going to need two rows of panels or "smaller" lights, so the suggestions that you are getting are pretty good - lots of panels. If you don't want to flank your panels in T5s, then double them up or you will get shadows that will harm your SPS... so we are talking like 10-12 Radions or Black Boxes. If you order a dozen black boxes, get an extra or two for when one of them goes out and you have a matching unit on the shelf... and save that bad one for parts.

Not what you asked, but I would consider a pair of 6 or 8 bulb 60" Sunpowers with LED strips on each side... or 6x 250w HQI Halides. BRS says that you can use the t5 bulbs for 2 years. You can use 4x400W MH on 20" reflectors with LED strips or T5s in the front and back - the good thing about 400w mogul is that you can go 1000w if you ever NEED to... these things are powerful and effective, but they do use up some power. In any case, you are going to have a lot of wattage for this if you want to grow corals anywhere and have great results. Do not underestimate how much reflectors are your friend on larger tanks.

Whatever you decide, this tank is no joke to light, so plan on spending a lot to buy the stuff and also a lot each month to keep it running - if you find yourself wanting to skimp, then get a smaller tank (27-30" deep will work for most single rows of lights). Also, try and get advice from people who have solved this problem since even when people mean well, what they do on even a 180g or nano will not scale to what you are doing and the advice ends up being too little.

In the end, if you are down to equal price to buy and run, then let performance be a big factor.

Great advice! Thank you!
I do plan to have sps at the bottom of the tank as well. With the aquascape I have in mind, most of it will be elevated roughly 6” to 8” off the sandbed. But there will be a few spots that will be close to the bottom.
The tank will be in a fish room that is 8’ x 10’ in size. The room will have an exhaust system to help reduce heat and moisture. I worry the halides May increase the heat much more than LED’s.
I understand the cost of simply running the tank will not be cheap, but wouldn’t the cost of halides and T5’s be quite a bit more than LED’s?

 

[oreo54]

Doing reefi's extremes would easily push over $2000.
MH wins here.

As to heat, arguments in either direction abound..

Argueing 400W of LED is equal or greater than 400W of MH's just gets me in trouble..
Sometimes due to more "watt efficiency" sometimes due to better directionality (360 and stuff vs 120 and stuff..)
sometimes both.

A lot of the heat savings w/ LED is because of the above. With proper LED design your "watts" can be less thus less heat.
And LED .................
I'll defer to the plant world..some applies some not..#3 has a weak correlation and may favor MH's.

Do LED Grow Lights Produce Heat?

Claim: LEDs do not produce heat. FALSE! They do. And it’s a fact that many LED companies outright lie about and we’re here to set the record straight. You might be surprised to learn that in a closed system (we’ll explain this later), they produce as much heat as high-pressure sodium (HPS)...

chilledgrowlights.com

HPS/MH operate at extremely high temperatures – 30000C/54000F. Much of that heat gets turned into infrared radiation. Infrared is a type of radiation that causes molecules to vibrate and heat up when it hits them. This infrared gets directed down on your plants just like the visible light radiation does. Experienced HPS/MH growers known this, that’s why they wouldn’t think of putting their lights too close to their plants – they would fry in a very short period of time.
In contrast, LEDs operate at far lower temperatures (typically less than 800C/1760F). Because of this, they direct far, far less infrared radiation towards your plants.


2) LEDs are more efficient than HPS/MH/HID/LEC/CMH so they require less watts to produce the same amount of light. As we said earlier, less watts means less total heat going into your grow space.


3) The light produced by LED grow lights is more efficiently used by plants, so they need less of it. With this combined double efficiency of LEDs producing more light per watt and more light getting photosynthesized, it is typical for people to replace 1000w HPS with a +-600w LED grow light. That’s translates to 40% less heat in your grow space.
Calculating Grow Light Heat Production

Calculating the amount of heat your grow light produces is easy. You simply take the total amount of watts used (the wall plug wattage) and multiply it by 3.41 to get the total BTUs produced per hour. (BTUs or British thermal units are a standard heat measurement within the HVAC industry and one BTU is roughly equal to the heat produced by one 4 in long match). As stated earlier, this is true regardless of what kind of light it is – LED, HPS, MH, or any other.


Example: 400w * 3.41 = 1364 BTUs/hr

Soo generally w/w both produce the same heat w/ the MH producing more ir heating..
sort of the heat from MH is directed at your tank where LEd in general is directed away from your tank..



As to depth penetration strictly a matter of lensing and photon counts..
I can get 15 "PAR" at 3 feet out of a single small diode in a flashlight..

growth/color .. I defer..

 

[Aquanaut WA]

I checked out the ReeFi lights too. They look awesome on the tanks that I have seen pics of (like the ones you posted ). They may be too far out of budget though, unfortunately. Thanks for your input!

My last DT began with +1200w lighting: 3 Radium fixtures flanked by 4 T5s and moved over years ago to LED. No regrets. Latest build shows, that a single ReeFi Extreme illuminates 48” area at PAR superior than a 400w Halide in a bell housing. Due to budget, you could start with 2 or 3 Extremes and add more as your reef grows in density to need more. That way PAR demanding corals can be placed within the zone and LPS ect throughout. Keep in mind that Halides and T5 bulb PAR life is 6-8 months and should be factored in to expense in addition to equipment.
I too, would rather spend money on livestock than equipment.

 

[jda]

Take it from a guy who has lit large tanks before... you are going to be at 1500 or 2000 watts of running electrical costs to adequately light this thing. You are going to be at 8-12 "smaller" panels with some T5s, or 4/6 MH either with or without some T5s, or 12-18 T5 bulbs with some LED strips. Your $1000-1200 budget is more for a 180G tank, unless you get really lucky with some used units or find a bunch of cheap black boxes. You can just have one row of lights for now and add more later as you need them, but you will likely need them.

You might see what 4x ReefBreeders Photon V2s look like run front to back. that still might be more than your budget.

I would not buy used black boxes... just too much risk with age and no warranties. Used T5 or MH is usually as good as new if it is a good brand (not Odyssea or other Chinese Knockoff brands).

It is NOT accurate that MH or T5 bulbs need to be changed at 6 to 8 months... this is just wholesale inaccurate and mostly posted by people who are trying to just argue their one side with an extreme example. Yes, they need changed and that needs to be factored, but 12 months for either is pretty common and many use some MH bulbs for much longer and BRS now recommends using T5s for 24 months. It is amazing to me that people who ague this leave out that fixtures need changed too... 5-6 years out of a LED fixture is pretty good, which makes bulbs seem cheap.

 

[P.kapp]

Thanks Everyone for all your input and responses! I like to hear from differing opinions and experiences to help me make an educated decision. If I did buy used equipment it wouldn’t be black boxes for sure. Thanks for the heads up!
I haven’t eliminated the idea of halides and T5’s, but I am intrigued by the Orphek OR2’s. Does anyone have any experience with these? Maybe combining LEDs and T5’s? Or maybe some Kessils to spotlight the deeper areas where there will be SPS closer to the bottom

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Great discussion! Lots of really helpful info!

 

[mtraylor]

If you are wanting used led fixtures to fit in your budget. Hit me up. I have 5 ghl 6300's that i will be posting soon that will be on your budget range. I have them about 7 inches from surface. See my aquarium build.Your aquarium width is bigger than mine. Mine is 27". Par would not be a problem, but you would have to raise them from surface of water and most likely 6 of them would be better stacked horizontally font to back. 3 across front and 3 in the back for your size aquarium to get started.

If you want to see energy cost please see below.

My Electricity Savings going from MH to LED's

In many of the threads on lighting between LED's and MH's. I see allot of comments stating that there is not very much savings in going from MH to LED"s. This is what inspired me to start this article. Just a little back ground. I have been...

www.reef2reef.com

If you really like orpheks. I would reccomend 4 of the v4 2's. That is what im about to change mine too. Im going with 4 stacked horizontally. 2 in front and 2 in rear for even coverage. That same would be perfect for you. Cost is high though.

I could actually go with just 2 and keep them high from surface of water but i want more even coverage to put sps wherever i want them