QT Confusion

[OfficeFish]

I follow humble fish’s qt process. Bought 3 pajama cardinals and 3 Vanderbilt chromis. During the formalin bath, one of the PJs started getting the spins and just floating into the flow. Cut that short and moved onto the methalyne blue bath. Then into the QT tank where he died about an hour later. Came back to check on the other fish and the other PJs are dead after going into the QT seemingly normal and even one ate earlier. Chromis look great. Tested the water and everything is “normal.” Any thoughts?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

OfficeFish Welcome to the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Forum!

The #fishmedic team and other knowledgeable members of our community will do our best to help you resolve your questions. Please provide as much of the following as you are able:

• Brief description of the issue you are observing and answers to the following questions:
  • How long have you had the fish with the condition?
  • Did you quarantine with medication when you first acquired the fish? (If Yes, which medication?)
• Current water quality measurements
• Clear photos of the issue taken using WHITE light and/or a short video of any behaviors (post in your response or on YouTube).

If you can help us by providing as much of the above info as possible, it will make diagnosing and providing recommendations for treatment MUCH easier! The Fish Medic team will get back to you as quickly as possible. In the meantime, other members of our community may also share their experience with similar situations and advice that they may have regarding your situation.

You may also feel free to provide a more detailed description of the condition if you wish to share more info than the above list.

Additionally, these links may be useful while you await a response:

• CURRENT QT PROTOCOL LINK
• HOW TO ASK FOR DISEASE DIAGNOSIS HELP LINK

 

[vetteguy53081]

I follow humble fish’s qt process. Bought 3 pajama cardinals and 3 Vanderbilt chromis. During the formalin bath, one of the PJs started getting the spins and just floating into the flow. Cut that short and moved onto the methalyne blue bath. Then into the QT tank where he died about an hour later. Came back to check on the other fish and the other PJs are dead after going into the QT seemingly normal and even one ate earlier. Chromis look great. Tested the water and everything is “normal.” Any thoughts?

The main issue may have been acclimation but Moreso the methylene blue which is not recommended for saltwater treatment but for freshwater.

 

[OfficeFish]

The main issue may have been acclimation but Moreso the methylene blue which is not recommended for saltwater treatment but for freshwater.

I guess my thought is the other fish were acclimated at the same time with the same method.

So this site is basically incorrect?

Methylene Blue

Methylene Blue (updated 7-19-2023) What It Treats: Ammonia burn, abrasions, cuts, open wounds. Mild antiparasitic/antibacterial/antifungal properties. Probably one of the best “first response” treatments for a sick fish. Will possibly detoxify a fish that has been exposed to cyanide poisoning...

humble.fish

I QT’d my clowns this way and they are in the DT and fine. Just trying to straighten this out.

 

[OfficeFish]

Here are the two I pulled out.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here are the two I pulled out.

They look a little thin but Methylene again likely affected them

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I follow humble fish’s qt process. Bought 3 pajama cardinals and 3 Vanderbilt chromis. During the formalin bath, one of the PJs started getting the spins and just floating into the flow. Cut that short and moved onto the methalyne blue bath. Then into the QT tank where he died about an hour later. Came back to check on the other fish and the other PJs are dead after going into the QT seemingly normal and even one ate earlier. Chromis look great. Tested the water and everything is “normal.” Any thoughts?

I don't know that quarantine process entails, but did you give a formalin dip to the fish when they first arrived? If so what was the dose? Were these fish shipped to you or did you pick them up at a local store? Do you know the salinity difference between the water they arrived in and your tank?

High dose formalin dips on newly purchased fish is a really, really bad idea. Formalin is damaging to a fish's skin and gills, plus it removes oxygen from the water - things that you do not want to expose newly arrived fish to!

I've heard people using up to 250 ppm for an hour, and that is too high and too long to be safe for even conditioned fish in tropical temperatures. The highest dose you should use at 80 degrees F. is 167 ppm. I use 150 most of the time. The 250 dose was designed for fisheries biologist for cold water fish, and it got misapplied to tropical fish.

Dosed correctly, methylene blue isn't toxic to fish, but it can kill beneficial bacteria in the biofilter. Used as a dip, its benefit is further limited. Personally, I stopped using that decades ago.

Jay

p.s. - my quarantine protocol is here:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[OfficeFish]

I don't know that quarantine process entails, but did you give a formalin dip to the fish when they first arrived? If so what was the dose? Were these fish shipped to you or did you pick them up at a local store? Do you know the salinity difference between the water they arrived in and your tank?

High dose formalin dips on newly purchased fish is a really, really bad idea. Formalin is damaging to a fish's skin and gills, plus it removes oxygen from the water - things that you do not want to expose newly arrived fish to!

I've heard people using up to 250 ppm for an hour, and that is too high and too long to be safe for even conditioned fish in tropical temperatures. The highest dose you should use at 80 degrees F. is 167 ppm. I use 150 most of the time. The 250 dose was designed for fisheries biologist for cold water fish, and it got misapplied to tropical fish.

Dosed correctly, methylene blue isn't toxic to fish, but it can kill beneficial bacteria in the biofilter. Used as a dip, its benefit is further limited. Personally, I stopped using that decades ago.

Jay

p.s. - my quarantine protocol is here:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks for the info. I guess I will forgo the baths unless symptoms make them necessary. I bought 3 more today. Thanks for the info. Just trying to get better at this.

 

[OfficeFish]

I don't know that quarantine process entails, but did you give a formalin dip to the fish when they first arrived? If so what was the dose? Were these fish shipped to you or did you pick them up at a local store? Do you know the salinity difference between the water they arrived in and your tank?

High dose formalin dips on newly purchased fish is a really, really bad idea. Formalin is damaging to a fish's skin and gills, plus it removes oxygen from the water - things that you do not want to expose newly arrived fish to!

I've heard people using up to 250 ppm for an hour, and that is too high and too long to be safe for even conditioned fish in tropical temperatures. The highest dose you should use at 80 degrees F. is 167 ppm. I use 150 most of the time. The 250 dose was designed for fisheries biologist for cold water fish, and it got misapplied to tropical fish.

Dosed correctly, methylene blue isn't toxic to fish, but it can kill beneficial bacteria in the biofilter. Used as a dip, its benefit is further limited. Personally, I stopped using that decades ago.

Jay

p.s. - my quarantine protocol is here:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks for the info. I guess I will forgo the baths unless symptoms make them necessary. I bought 3 more today. Thanks for the info.

I don't know that quarantine process entails, but did you give a formalin dip to the fish when they first arrived? If so what was the dose? Were these fish shipped to you or did you pick them up at a local store? Do you know the salinity difference between the water they arrived in and your tank?

High dose formalin dips on newly purchased fish is a really, really bad idea. Formalin is damaging to a fish's skin and gills, plus it removes oxygen from the water - things that you do not want to expose newly arrived fish to!

I've heard people using up to 250 ppm for an hour, and that is too high and too long to be safe for even conditioned fish in tropical temperatures. The highest dose you should use at 80 degrees F. is 167 ppm. I use 150 most of the time. The 250 dose was designed for fisheries biologist for cold water fish, and it got misapplied to tropical fish.

Dosed correctly, methylene blue isn't toxic to fish, but it can kill beneficial bacteria in the biofilter. Used as a dip, its benefit is further limited. Personally, I stopped using that decades ago.

Jay

p.s. - my quarantine protocol is here:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Oh and to actually answer you. Formalin was dosed at 200. I picked these fish up. Salinity was 33 and I run 35 ppt.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the info. I guess I will forgo the baths unless symptoms make them necessary. I bought 3 more today. Thanks for the info.

Oh and to actually answer you. Formalin was dosed at 200. I picked these fish up. Salinity was 33 and I run 35 ppt.

200 ppm is still a bit too high for a formalin dip at tropical temperatures, but better than the 250 that I've heard people using. Always aerate the formalin dip water well during the process. Remember that formalin is a carcinogen, so use PPE when handling it, and know that it de-gasses and will enter your home as a gas, I stopped using it for that reason.

The salinity rise from 33 to 35 isn't an issue, it's just that many stores keep their fish too low, and then when customers try to acclimate the fish up to full salinity, they run into problems.