protein skimmer counterproductive for a maturing reef tank?

[Ballyhoo]

at first I hated that protein skimmer, I called it the protein scammer. Firstly LFS installed it wrong and forgot to put a rubber gasket at the water inlet, so it sounded like my GT Mustang engine. it was very loud from day one and I just not knowing about reef tanks thought that protein skimmers were loud. I put a DIY gasket and now the skimmer thunderous noise is goneI just used adhesive felt to wrap around the pump/water inlet area and is now is very quiet. I don't understand how the knuckle installing my tank could've missed putting the gasket on the skimmer, but whatever. It does such a great job sucking up bad water. I have this compulsion to measure the skim waste water versus the tank water. The skim water is tested using my 10 and 1 strips and always tests high in nitrite and nitrate. And then I take the same type strip and test my actual tank, which shows very low nitrate and nitrate. Great right? But I want my tank to mature like anyone else, it's just the beginning phase, past the initial cycle of six weeks. I did everything to get it cycle quickly as I could, using live rock, live sand, and everything else they tell you to put in. And it did fine it cycled I have no ammonia no nitrates no nitrates and haven't for a few weeks But I'm wondering whether my skimmer might be scamming the maturity of my tank or may do so in the long run? could a skimmer doing its job so well make it longer for me to get Coraline? I just would like to know because I don't know, when I remove the waste water it's all yellow stuff full of nitrates and nitrates but what else is in there that might be good for maturing tank?.

 

[Lavey29]

Skimmers do more then just exporting waste. They oxygenate the water for your animals. Tanks continually evolve and mature for years so at 6 weeks your tank is like a drop of water compared to the ocean. Patience is the number one element in this hobby.

You do realize that bottomed out nutrients are terrible for your tank right?

 

[ryanjohn1]

I run a skimmer like one night every 2 weeks

 

[jkcoral]

Skimmer is just doing its job. Six weeks is nothing, and the main ingredient for maturing tank is time.

You may not end up running it 24/7 down the road. Some people do a couple days a week, I run mine over night, etc.

 

[Ballyhoo]

I am not sure of the terminology "bottomed out."
from my limited knowledge as a new yet very enthusiast reefer I'm very happy that the skimmer is taking the nitrites and nitrates out of my tank. I mean, I understand I've heard neither of those are very bad for a reef tank, but they're not good either so I'm still really trying to get a hand on the role of a skimmer re a new tank and should I have it running all the time or just some of the time. i'm not quite sure if higher levels of nitrites and nitrates would prevent my coral growth or not. I'm sure there's plenty of materials on the Internet about it though. I guess like somebody said it's patience. I thought a mature tank would handle nitrites and nitrates on its own. And my skimmer right now is doing the job maybe because
the tank is immature. Getting the reef tank to reach that threshold where there's Coraline is my goal, like I'm sure it is for most people with a new reef tank. But I'm just not 100% comprehending what the role of a skimmer is in the newer tank.
edit
when I say not 100% sure, I mean, I understand a portion here like I understand It's getting bad stuff out, but I guess I would like to understand more about the chemistry of what a skimmer does and it's relative importance or impact on a new tank. maybe this is more of a thread for the chemistry forum. IDK

plus, I think from what I'm learning, I see people posting threads about how they never do water changes. And I'm guessing it's because they are relying on their protein skimmers.

 

[Lavey29]

I am not sure of the terminology "bottomed out."
from my limited knowledge as a new yet very enthusiast reefer I'm very happy that the skimmer is taking the nitrites and nitrates out of my tank. I mean, I understand I've heard neither of those are very bad for a reef tank, but they're not good either so I'm still really trying to get a hand on the role of a skimmer re a new tank and should I have it running all the time or just some of the time. i'm not quite sure if higher levels of nitrites and nitrates would prevent my coral growth or not. I'm sure there's plenty of materials on the Internet about it though. I guess like somebody said it's patience. I thought a mature tank would handle nitrites and nitrates on its own. And my skimmer right now is doing the job maybe because i
the tank is immature. Getting the reef tank to reach that threshold where there's Coraline. But I'm just not 100% comprehending what the role of a skimmer is in the newer tank.

Nitrites are irrelevant in reef aquaria if your tank is producing measurable nitrates.

Do you have any coral yet?

 

[One Reefing Boi]

I might suggest the YouTube series BRS 52 weeks of reefing. Lots of great information in there!

Btw your tank NEEDS nitrates unless you’re planning to just do fish. If you’re just going to do fish and no coral, nitrates don’t matter

 

[Ballyhoo]

yes, I have coral. Here is my six week tank. Far as I can tell the fish are all happy as clams. Although I did add a white sand sifting starfish a little early and it's starving. May the Reef Gods strike me dead. I got overly enthusiastic at the LFS. I loved the starfish too when I first got it, It roamed everywhere.

 

[Ballyhoo]

only coral I'm having issues with his my Xenia. It's really struggling.

 

[Dbichler]

I have always ran a skimmer every day from day one just for oxygenation purposes. I have never seen a skimmer take out too much. Guess it’s posssible but if your low on nutrients just feed more. More waste more fish poop better for corals anyways.

 

[exnisstech]

Xenia struggles in low nutrients.
I have three tanks running and no longer have a skimmer on any of them. Sure they help oxygenate the water but I have enough flow through the sump and surface agitation with open tops I don't feel I need one just for that purpose. It just another tool that some people need some don't and some feel they do.

 

[Ballyhoo]

OMG now you've really turned my head around. you don't have a protein skimmer? How often are you doing Water changes?

 

[GARRIGA]

Fuge solves much of what a skimmer removes and provides. To what extent the unknown. BRS might have done an investigate but don't recall. Would be cool if someone with space ran two identical tanks with one skimmed and the other scrubbed by plants. Send ICP out and validate. Simple enough to set both up with similar fish and inverts then feed same amount of food. Best replicate what happens with life vs just dropping misis cubes.

 

[exnisstech]

OMG now you've really turned my head around. you don't have a protein skimmer? How often are you doing Water changes?

Each tank is different. I have one 45gish that I'm dealing with GHA so I've been doing 4 gallons back to back for 2 days then waiting a few days and repeat. I don't feel like pulling the rock to scrub it so just sucking out what I can. I run a sock as the only mechanical filtration.
Another about 65g total that I do minimal changes of a couple gallons every 5 - 7 days. All the detritus settles in one corner so I basically suck water out to clean that up. I've been using all for reef and trying to see if I can get by with minimal changes. I have a reefmat in that tank.
My newest tank 285g has only been up for 2 months. I did my first 10% change 2 days ago. Plan is to do 10% every couple of weeks depending on test results and how things look. I'm depending on socks along with an algae scrubber and a cryptic fuge as filtration.

I like to play around with different methods. It helps me learn and keeps things interesting.

 

[Glowurm]

Each tank is different. I have one 45gish that I'm dealing with GHA so I've been doing 4 gallons back to back for 2 days then waiting a few days and repeat. I don't feel like pulling the rock to scrub it so just sucking out what I can. I run a sock as the only mechanical filtration.
Another about 65g total that I do minimal changes of a couple gallons every 5 - 7 days. All the detritus settles in one corner so I basically suck water out to clean that up. I've been using all for reef and trying to see if I can get by with minimal changes. I have a reefmat in that tank.
My newest tank 285g has only been up for 2 months. I did my first 10% change 2 days ago. Plan is to do 10% every couple of weeks depending on test results and how things look. I'm depending on socks along with an algae scrubber and a cryptic fuge as filtration.

I like to play around with different methods. It helps me learn and keeps things interesting.

dang thats a lot of rock! lol

Do you have any sand in that sump? Was planning to run a refugium at some point so added some to mind and might now be changing my mind...

 

[Ballyhoo]

IDK,now i just see all the gunky yellow water high in nitrites and trates removed by skimmer and i wonder if i didn't have the skimmer all that gunky water would still be in my tank, unless i had a fuge? there has to be enough cumulative experience in the hobby to really have an answer.

 

[GARRIGA]

IDK,now i just see all the gunky yellow water high in nitrites and trates removed by skimmer and i wonder if i didn't have the skimmer all that gunky water would still be in my tank, unless i had a fuge? there has to be enough cumulative experience in the hobby to really have an answer.

Evidence has been around since Dr Adey showcased his ATS. Planted aquariums in Europe before that. When it comes to nutrient removal nature is efficient. Just not as cool as today's Deltec yet some solutions such as Pax Bellum can easily rival that. Hobby gravitates to what's mostly sold which means profit driven and something as simple as an undergravel filter dismissed because little profit exists. Jaubert was a thing although to this day I'm still not completely sure how that worked different than with an air lift but I know it did and yet as with everything, flaws exist that need getting worked out vs hobby just forgetting about it because Instagram and tank of the month might not appreciate.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

So as previously stated skimmers also do things like oxygenate the water which can help stabilize pH.

But, from reading through this thread I think you may need a little more elaboration on how they work.

Protein skimmers do not directly lower nitrates, nitrates, or phosphates. Instead they remove solids (aka proteins) from the water that may eventually break down into this compounds. As part of that process they can also remove other materials - some potentially useful and some potentially harmful as they have no way to discriminate between the two. They essentially are just using the different charges of the proteins and the surface of the bubbles to accumulate this materials and bring them up to your collection cup.

So all that "gunky water" - the skimmate - is just a concentration of detritus and other solids that have been caught in this process so that you can remove them more easily. Because they're concentrated here, if you were to test them I would expect there might be higher NO3/PO4 levels than the main tank simply because of them being condensed into one location (though I have never thought to test my skimmate...)

Can skimmers remove "too much" that might negatively impact your reef? Potentially, that is why we test for multiple parameters of the tank which will lead some people to reduce their skimmer's run time.

You asked about new tanks....so in a new tank they are going to be doing the same thing, by removing solids in a new tank they can help your bacteria get established without as big of an ammonia spike due to reduced waste being left in the tank. It will not slow/deter coralline growth - that only comes with time and stability.

6 weeks is a young tank, from my experiences (others may differ) coralline really begins setting in after months of maintaining a stable environment and may require introduction (rock from a friend's tank or bottled source).

I would recommend being very patient, there are a lot of things that can go wrong in this hobby if you try to rush things along. Get very acquainted with some test kits and use them regularly (I would suggest upgrading from the strips for more accuracy).

You're going to hear phrases like "chasing numbers" a lot, which is generally when a hobbyist is changing their parameters a lot trying to copy someone else or some data they found somewhere. My biggest thing here is once you've chosen your brand/mix of salt, you're just trying to maintain stability based on the parameters of that salt mix - either through water changes or dosing.

 

[BeanAnimal]

OMG now you've really turned my head around. you don't have a protein skimmer? How often are you doing Water changes?

I am going to (again) suggest operating "by the book" for a year or so until you get a feel for what works for you and what doesn't. I made a list in your other thread.

Just follow the beginner rules and program and gain experience. Learn from that experience and then you can start making decisions on different approaches.

Some of us skim, some don't. Some do water changes, some don't. Some with socks, roller filters, dosing, and every other aspect of reef keeping. There are endless permutations and options, but that good old standby works until you know what options you want to explore. Give it a year and you will look back with far more understanding.

 

[Ballyhoo]

now that I'm learning more about reefing and how a skimmer works, I'm wondering how do tanks actually go more mature and survive without a skimmer.? I mean, my skimmer is taking out all this yellow gunk from my tank on a daily basis. If didn't have that skimmer like a lot of people don't have skimmers then what happens to all that yellow gunk? would not having a protein skimmer just make me more of a slave to water changes? Even then, if I took out a 10% water change, I'm still leaving 90% of that gunk in my tank.