PO4 is up, what steps should I take?

[twentyleagues]

At .03-.05 most if not all of that could just be test error. I would not even start to worry about rising po4 until you hit .1 or higher. Most test kits are just not that accurate including the hannah with a .01-.03 +/- range.

 

[rishma]

Regarding readings if 0.03…

I repeatedly had problems when I tried to manage it at that low level. Sometimes because I’d end up at 0.00 but other times not. Very unhappy corals and In the worst case dinos. I always figured it was test error, which it could be, but I also stumbled on something interesting recently.

I was measuring every 12 hours and found this interesting trend (below). In my tank it appears PO4 swings between morning and night. At first I chalked it up to test error but the pattern kept repeating. This same pattern has continued for another 3 days so I think it might be real (there are reasons it might not be). I have some ideas what might cause this, but it probably doesn’t matter. It does reinforce to me that the higher target range I’ve been using for a while is a good idea. The corals have appreciated it which was really all I needed to know. I haven’t followed any of the trident NP users to see if they see the same thing.

At .03-.05 most if not all of that could just be test error. I would not even start to worry about rising po4 until you hit .1 or higher. Most test kits are just not that accurate including the hannah with a .01-.03 +/- range.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Regarding readings if 0.03…

I repeatedly had problems when I tried to manage it at that low level. Sometimes because I’d end up at 0.00 but other times not. Very unhappy corals and In the worst case dinos. I always figured it was test error, which it could be, but I also stumbled on something interesting recently.

I was measuring every 12 hours and found this interesting trend (below). In my tank it appears PO4 swings between morning and night. At first I chalked it up to test error but the pattern kept repeating. This same pattern has continued for another 3 days so I think it might be real (there are reasons it might not be). I have some ideas what might cause this, but it probably doesn’t matter. It does reinforce to me that the higher target range I’ve been using for a while is a good idea. The corals have appreciated it which was really all I needed to know. I haven’t followed any of the trident NP users to see if they see the same thing.

What test is this using?

 

[rishma]

What test is this using?

Hanna phosphorus ULR. I previously found I was able to greatly increase repeatability of back to back tests by measuring water with syringe, getting all the powder out of the envelop, and timing my mixing so I feel pretty good about the results….but it could still be test error

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Hanna ULR. I previously found I was able to greatly increase repeatability of back to back tests by measuring water with syringe, getting all the powder out of the envelop, and timing my mixing so I feel pretty good about the results….but it could still be test error

Thanks, I only assumed it was some sort of auto testing (Reef factory or Trident) because of the graph and interface. How did you create this chart? That looks extremely useful.

I should also note, No3 is basically perfect where it sits, it is currently at <5ppm probably about 3-4 which I am happy with.

 

[rishma]

Thanks, I only assumed it was some sort of auto testing (Reef factory or Trident) because of the graph and interface. How did you create this chart? That looks extremely useful.

I should also note, No3 is basically perfect where it sits, it is currently at <5ppm probably about 3-4 which I am happy with.

I input the test data into my apex Fusion log, it’s just a place to log data on the Apex dash board and I can plot things like pH against the manually input test data. It makes pretty charts, but doesn’t keep that data long term (at least I don’t know how to look back at older data)

Also, I assume your NO3 comments were not meant for me. I’m not the OP and didn’t mean to hijack the thread, I just got sidetracked on the PO4 discussion.

 

[ZoWhat]

My PO4 has been rock solid at 0.01ppm for a couple years now.... and I feed pretty heavy

My secret sauce is:

1) I brew my own Nanno and Tetra phytoplankton and dose about 4ozs of each every morning right before the high light cycle.

The phytoplankton outcompetes all other forms of algae to consume PO4 pretty quickly

2) I dose every morning roughly 0.1ml of Blue Life PhosRX. it's lanth-chloride that bonds PO4 chemically very quickly. Turns the water column a slightly white haze showing it's bonding PO4 that will be either skimmed out or caught in a 200mc filter sock.

I buy the Blue Life PhosRX right off Amazon

3) I do a 30 gal waterchange every 3-4 weeks on a 200g total water volume system.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I input the test data into my apex Fusion log, it’s just a place to log data on the Apex dash board and I can plot things like pH against the manually input test data. It makes pretty charts, but doesn’t keep that data long term (at least I don’t know how to look back at older data)

Also, I assume your NO3 comments were not meant for me. I’m not the OP and didn’t mean to hijack the thread, I just got sidetracked on the PO4 discussion.

That's fine, all info is appreciated

 

[Brad Coughlan]

My PO4 has been rock solid at 0.01ppm for a couple years now.... and I feed pretty heavy

My secret sauce is:

1) I brew my own Nanno and Tetra phytoplankton and dose about 4ozs of each every morning right before the high light cycle.

The phytoplankton outcompetes all other forms of algae to consume PO4 pretty quickly

2) I dose every morning roughly 0.1ml of Blue Life PhosRX. it's lanth-chloride that bonds PO4 chemically very quickly. Turns the water column a slightly white haze showing it's bonding PO4 that will be either skimmed out or caught in a 200mc filter sock.

I buy the Blue Life PhosRX right off Amazon

3) I do a 30 gal waterchange every 3-4 weeks on a 200g total water volume system.

Seems like a solid method. Phos RX seems like pretty spicy stuff judging by the dosage. If things don't go down I'll pick some up, a bit on the expensive side but looks like it's an effective product.

Could I also use something like coral snow to bind organics in the water column, making it easier for mechanical filtration to pick up excess nutrients? Also the added bonus of clearer water.

 

[twentyleagues]

Seems like a solid method. Phos RX seems like pretty spicy stuff judging by the dosage. If things don't go down I'll pick some up, a bit on the expensive side but looks like it's an effective product.

Could I also use something like coral snow to bind organics in the water column, making it easier for mechanical filtration to pick up excess nutrients? Also the added bonus of clearer water.

I use snow weekly. I see no change in po4 when I use it. But like you I have low po4 to begin with .03-.08 on hannah which is who knows actual could be .01-.1 but I see no lowering effect that is detectable with the hannah on po4 or nitrate.

 

[Uncle99]

Keeping phosphate at 0.03ppm is not a good number as with most hobby grade tests, the colour change is too faint for most to discern accurately.

That trace value (0.03ppm) may just as well be zero, and zero may trigger pest type algae’s and bacteria’s.

It’s safer, IMM to run say .1ppm tested with the Hanna to ensure, even with error, phosphate is in the water.

I’ve ran phosphate at .3ppm for years with no issues. But it’s a solid .3ppm, not changing week to week.

That said, your numbers are good if they are staying stable.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I use snow weekly. I see no change in po4 when I use it. But like you I have low po4 to begin with .03-.08 on hannah which is who knows actual could be .01-.1 but I see no lowering effect that is detectable with the hannah on po4 or nitrate.

Do you find it improves water clarity?

 

[twentyleagues]

Do you find it improves water clarity?

Absolutely. May even be the reason I have not had an ugly stage in my all dry rock abomination....lol. I dont really think that.

 

[SeaDweller]

Do a large water change and run gfo. Or use some liquid LC like phosphatE

 

[twentyleagues]

I really feel the necessity to state that the op needs to do nothing atm with their po4 levels. Doing any aggressive po4 treatment at these levels could go really badly. The .01-.05 crowd is not the majority nor do all tanks tolerate those low levels well. There is a lot that goes into keeping ulns systems for example other sources directly fed to corals to give them the needed n and p.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Absolutely. May even be the reason I have not had an ugly stage in my all dry rock abomination....lol. I dont really think that.

Awesome,
which particular snow product are you using just out of curiosity? Brightwell maybe? Or just DIY calcium carbonate. Been looking at dosing this stuff recently, water clarity isn't great right now.

 

[twentyleagues]

Awesome,
which particular snow product are you using just out of curiosity? Brightwell maybe? Or just DIY calcium carbonate. Been looking at dosing this stuff recently, water clarity isn't great right now.

I use @SunnyX diy recipe. Sometimes I add the additives(?lol) other times I dose just the calcium carbonate water.

 

[rishma]

I really feel the necessity to state that the op needs to do nothing atm with their po4 levels. Doing any aggressive po4 treatment at these levels could go really badly. The .01-.05 crowd is not the majority nor do all tanks tolerate those low levels well. There is a lot that goes into keeping ulns systems for example other sources directly fed to corals to give them the needed n and p.

I 100% agree. The conversation meandered all over and that is partly my fault but this is an important message.

0.1 ppm PO4 is good.

 

[killer2001]

Lanthanum chloride on an automatic doser has been my go to solution. I can dial it in within 0.1mL. I typically keep a range of 0.05 to 0.15ppm PO4. If the number starts creeping down towards 0.05 I'll reduce the dosage and if it starts creeping back up to 0.15ppm I'll increase dosage. Of course this comes with the risk of the automatic doser staying stuck open, but I've been keeping the container only slightly filled just in case.

 

[Danny McElroy]

Was away for a few weeks and stopped NOPOX dosing and didn't rinse food, po4 is at about 0.5ppm, used to be 0.03.
I have resumed NOPOX dosing and begun NYOS Phosi-ex GFO. It hasn't started going down yet as far as I know so far, using the Salifert phosphate test kit which I find very hard to read accurately, so might be going down - in fact, there's no reason it shouldn't. I do a 15% water change every week.

What else can I do to bring these phosphates down?

I would try Blue Life Phosphate Rx, has worked great for me.