Bottomed Out Nitrates/Cyano/Neonitro Confusion

[justdeb1107]

In trying to control my phosphates (GFO, water changes) I have bottomed out my nitrates. As in, zero on the Hanna checker. Last night I added the appropriate amount of NeoNitro to bring the tank from zero to 3. It hasn't been 24 hours yet, so I don't know if it worked. My question is more that (being "chemistry challenged") I really don't understand what the directions about all the other additives mean. I am confused and not sure if it's for adding organic carbon (like vodka dosing, which I understood drops both phos AND nitrate by feeding the bacteria that consumes them???) or what?

"Used in conjunction with MicroBacter and Reef BioFuel or Katalyst [which is the stuff they dose vodka for, right?], enables natural phosphorus uptake to take place in systems with inadequate nitrogen content, lowering phosphate concentration without the use of chemical filtration media [GFO?] and without resorting to polluting the system with organic material to raise the nitrogen content.

Recommended for use by advanced reef aquarists [clearly not me] maintaining ultra-low nutrient content systems, only.

May be used with MicroBacter (selected microbes and enzymes), ReefBiofuel and/or Katalyst (organic carbon source) [again, vodka dosing???], and NeoPhos (phosphorus source) to achieve desired nutrient content in reef aquaria for improved health and coloration of inhabitants."

There is even more technical stuff in the directions (paragraphs and paragraphs) that essentially boil down to using at least 2, maybe 3, more of their products (see above for recommended products). I have a 210 gallon tank. These supplements add up. All I know is that completely bottomed out nitrate is BAD. High phosphates are BAD. High phos is likely due to over feeding my fish, but I have 4 tangs, and also have been told not feeding heavily is BAD (mainly by the fish themselves, who rush the tank glass every time I am near, looking hungry and miserable - ha!).

Having zero nutrients is also BAD because then dinos will come, which are VERY, VERY bad.

Instead, I seem to get cyano which is ugly and I want to control. Oddly, it seems worse when I run my GFO/carbon reactor. Speaking of which, some people say running carbon is also BAD, because it strips good stuff with the stuff that makes your water yellow.

So I am now utterly, completely confused with seemingly contradictory information. And I want this gross cyano out of my tank, but I also don't need to encourage dinos, which have caused many an "advanced aquarist" to tear down entire systems. Do I need the other Brightwell products, or are there less expensive alternatives?

Sorry, but I didn't make it to vet school because chemistry and my brain absolutely don't mix, which is a challenge in this hobby, for sure. Conflicting and/or partial info on the internet is also confusing. I also don't know who is just pimping unnecessary products to fatten the bottom line.

Tank has been running for 5+ years, but moved to new location on May 4th of this year.

Last night's parameters were as below. Tank has mostly LPS, but I have my first (hardy) sticks in it now, and a crocea clam. Lights are correct for each species via PAR meter. LPS and other corals doing very well. If you have read this far and want to help, I would be extremely grateful. Thank you!

pH: 8.1
Nitrate: 0
Calcium: 420
Alk: 10
SG: 1.025
Temp: 79 (working on lowering it, malfunctioning heater + improperly calibrated Inkbird)
PO4: .22
Magnesium: 1425

Pic of my cyano. Pics of happy corals, fish, and clam. Help me make the fuglies go away, please.

 

[TheMetalReefs]

I would probably stop dosing till you get that cyanno in check. I was kinda stuck in the same loop. Had low to no No3 so I dosed more to raise it, would get a elevated reading that day amd then it would bottom out. I think i was just basically fuling the cyanno. so i just let it phase out.

as for the relation of the additives, if i umderstand correctly is that your No3 will rise if you have no PO4 because the good bacteria that eats both will stop if either one is missing. Same goes to PO4 rising if there isnt any No3. The catalysts or bacter7 is the beneficial bacteria that uses both.

However, just because you have 0 No3 doesnt mean you have 0 nitrates, just that your No3 is being consumed faster than you can test it. Make sure you get rid of your algaes and then test.

Im not super experienced so maybe some others can chime in.

I just recently moved my tank too and was curious if I would go through another ugly stage.

 

[justdeb1107]

I would probably stop dosing till you get that cyanno in check. I was kinda stuck in the same loop. Had low to no No3 so I dosed more to raise it, would get a elevated reading that day amd then it would bottom out. I think i was just basically fuling the cyanno. so i just let it phase out.

as for the relation of the additives, if i umderstand correctly is that your No3 will rise if you have no PO4 because the good bacteria that eats both will stop if either one is missing. Same goes to PO4 rising if there isnt any No3. The catalysts or bacter7 is the beneficial bacteria that uses both.

However, just because you have 0 No3 doesnt mean you have 0 nitrates, just that your No3 is being consumed faster than you can test it. Make sure you get rid of your algaes and then test.

Im not super experienced so maybe some others can chime in.

I just recently moved my tank too and was curious if I would go through another ugly stage.

Thanks! Seems the uglies in a tank that's been moved aren't as bad as when you start fresh. At least, that's been my experience.

 

[TheMetalReefs]

nice tank by the way. Dang, moved a 210 gal?! I moved my 30 gal 15 mins away and took me about a week. I was stressed lol.

 

[Lavey29]

Cyano flourishes more with to much light and lack of flow in dead spots in the tank. Probably to much white light in the tank

 

[justdeb1107]

nice tank by the way. Dang, moved a 210 gal?! I moved my 30 gal 15 mins away and took me about a week. I was stressed lol.

Thank you! It was a feat, and there were (many) times I felt I bit off more than I could chew with it. Just putting the tank on its stand took 4 big men. It's an old Oceanic that weighs 400 lbs empty. And then a bulkhead leaked. Oh, yeah, fun times. We can never move. haha

 

[justdeb1107]

Cyano flourishes more with to much light and lack of flow in dead spots in the tank. Probably to much white light in the tank

I cut that down a while ago. Enough that my daytime tank lights have a definite blue cast to them. Also, the worst bubbles are right near a gyre that constantly gives them good, intermittent flow. I have four big powerheads, too. I have tried soooo many things. Definitely one of the frustrating parts of the hobby.

 

[adamg77]

I am no expert but I’ll give my 2 cents and tag a much more season guy @Randy Holmes-Farley who is the absolute goat.

My general philosophy is to add as little as possible to the tank when it comes to chemicals. Yes things must be added to replenish elements that have been consumed by algae, micro fauna, and fish but the other ‘stuff’ I try and keep to a minimum. As for your brands for carbon dosing (if that’s what it is) I cannot attest to as I have not used it.
I do have experience with Tropic Marin products and they have worked for me. Carbon dosing from my understanding does a much better job of reducing nitrates than phosphates though. I mainly utilize it as @Lou Ekus has spoken extensively about corals feeding on the bacteria and it does make sense to me and my corals are happy! Not only is it very simple to use - just throw it on a doser based off your phosphate reading (they have three different products for different ranges) it is also very affordable for my 180.

That being said I would confirm your makeup water is testing 0 phosphates - my RODI unit was leaching phosphates into my system. Changed the Di resin and I was back down to 0 on the Hana. I used GFO in a different system and while it was affective at stripping phosphates I did not like my tank relying on it.
Assuming proper lighting and it seems like it is, proper flow, and good makeup water then it has to be something in the tank or something being added to the tank.

What food is being added and what frequency?
How long has the phosphate been this ‘high’?
How long has the cyano been there?
Is there adequate biological filtration?
Is there a Refugium?

It looks like a beautiful tank with happy corals and fish! While I do understand the urge to get rid of the ‘uglies’ I have tried to adopt a mentality that the tank has a mind of its own and realistically we are trying to make this pristine reef when in the ocean it just isn’t free of the ‘uglies.’ I’ve stopped cleaning my glass so I can watch all the copepods climb around on it. Hopefully someone with more expertise can chime in. I do like tropic Marin’s outlook as it seems like they have put a lot of research and development into their products. They also back it and are very willing to answer questions and help with stuff that’s going on with it. I am currently using their np bacto balance - which is 1 of their 3 options for carbon dosing. I’m also using their all for reef and have had great success.

 

[Lavey29]

I cut that down a while ago. Enough that my daytime tank lights have a definite blue cast to them. Also, the worst bubbles are right near a gyre that constantly gives them good, intermittent flow. I have four big powerheads, too. I have tried soooo many things. Definitely one of the frustrating parts of the hobby.

White light intensity shouldn't be more then 25% intensity. It's only for viewing pleasure not for corals.

 

[mikebusc]

White light intensity shouldn't be more then 25% intensity. It's only for viewing pleasure not for corals.

Would it be ok to just up the white light while viewing and then back down when not? Not sure if that would cause any problems or stress in the tank with the back and forth.

 

[Lavey29]

Would it be ok to just up the white light while viewing and then back down when not? Not sure if that would cause any problems or stress in the tank with the back and forth.

It's all relative. If you view your tank multiple times a day and blast white light while doing so then your tank will react to that stimulus. Just find a setting that is not to much intensity of white but gives you decent viewing. Your lights should ramp up for an hour in the morning and ramp down for an hour in the afternoon simulating sunrise and sunset.