PO4 is up, what steps should I take?

[Brad Coughlan]

Was away for a few weeks and stopped NOPOX dosing and didn't rinse food, po4 is at about 0.5ppm, used to be 0.03.
I have resumed NOPOX dosing and begun NYOS Phosi-ex GFO. It hasn't started going down yet as far as I know so far, using the Salifert phosphate test kit which I find very hard to read accurately, so might be going down - in fact, there's no reason it shouldn't. I do a 15% water change every week.

What else can I do to bring these phosphates down?

 

[illprobablykilleverything]

Following. I too am dealing with perfectly fine nitrates at 4PPM, but my phosphates consistently stay at .3. I think it has to do with the amount of reef roid‘s I’ve fed for the last six months. but I have stopped feeding for the last month and a half, and the only thing that has made any impact has been running GFO in a reactor. I’m also removing all the rock and sand from my sand bed. This is a frag Tank I’m referencing

 

[Miami Reef]

I don’t think the salifert phosphate is a good kit.

Many reef keepers suggest the Hanna ULR PO4 test kit.

NOPOX and water changes will reduce phosphate to some extent, but the real powerhouse is the GFO. It’s one of the greatest tools for reducing PO4. It’s best used in a reactor with a slight tumble on the surface.

 

[rishma]

Agree that GFO is a good solution when phosphate is high. I dont like using carbon dosing if phosphate is high unless nitrate is also high. Nitrate tends to bottom out before phosphate is under control. GFO being selective for phosphate is a good tool.

I have used the Hanna ULR since it first came out. Strongly recommend.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I don’t think the salifert phosphate is a good kit.

Many reef keepers suggest the Hanna ULR PO4 test kit.

NOPOX and water changes will reduce phosphate to some extent, but the real powerhouse is the GFO. It’s one of the greatest tools for reducing PO4. It’s best used in a reactor with a slight tumble on the surface.

Ah, mine is just in a media bag (AIO 20gallon system)

Could that be why the rate of phosphate reduction is going at a snails pace? It's been about a week since I started

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I am likely going to get a Hanna PO4 ULR, as well has ALK checker. They seem so much easier to read, only downside is the cost but when it's something like PO4 it's better to get a more accurate reading.

As much as I can't put an exact number on the results from the Salifert, I can say they are around 0.5, but I can notice trends with that kit just not a pin point exact number.

 

[rishma]

I own 2 checkers, phosphorus ULR and alkalinity. I find them invaluable in managing my tank. I broke the alkalinity one and immediately bought another . The only other thing I test regularly is nitrate, but regular test kits are good enough for me with nitrate.

 

[Frags 2 Fishes]

I second the Hanna ULR Phosphate checker. Start with that tongrt a better idea of where your phosphates actually are. Some large water changes might help to bring the level down initially before adding GFO. I typically see that GFO is much more effective when used in a reactor vs a media bag.

More importantly how are your corals looking? Have you noticed a chance since the phosphate started to come up?

 

[Doctorgori]

I’m not saying this is an actual solution but “coincidentally” I was battling high phosphates all the while dosing NoPox …
Just for “Sheets&giggles” I added Tropic Marin’s “Reef Actif” ..

It appears to be working, or at least my phosphates have dropped in tandem…

Again, this is just ancedotal sample…

 

[Doctorgori]

Could that be why the rate of phosphate reduction is going at a snails pace? It's been about a week since I started

you could always blast that thing down with Lanthium Chloride …. I like Brightells Phosphate E, but I’d bet it’s just overpriced Pool Chemicals….
…I’ve never observed any downside to fast phosphate reduction

 

[Pod_01]

Was away for a few weeks and stopped NOPOX dosing and didn't rinse food, po4 is at about 0.5ppm, used to be 0.03.
I have resumed NOPOX dosing and begun NYOS Phosi-ex GFO. It hasn't started going down yet as far as I know so far, using the Salifert phosphate test kit which I find very hard to read accurately, so might be going down - in fact, there's no reason it shouldn't. I do a 15% water change every week.

What else can I do to bring these phosphates down?

I would just re-check, maybe start rinsing food again and monitor the trend. I have observed no negative on corals from elevated phosphate.
On the other hand I killed corals from aggressive GFO use and fast sinking phosphate namely montiporas, other corals didn’t like it as well. This is just my observation.
These days I let PO4 do it’s thing, up or down.

Good luck,

 

[Doctorgori]

On the other hand I killed corals from aggressive GFO use and fast sinking phosphate namely montiporas, other corals didn’t like it as well. This is just my observation.

I’ve never observed that, but to be clear that’s far from disputing any of your observations….

Rather it’s more fact finding as we all might be missing something here…Could be some variable difference between my tanks and others…but I’ve never read this anywhere either….

- Could be your tank actually went zero and the rapid decline was incorrectly identified as the cause
- OR a could very well be it was the rapid decline in combo with another variable
- Or the rapid phosphate decline was the primary cause but my tanks had some other variable mitigating the effect

No arguing/challenging per se, but rapid phosphate decline just isn’t something I’ve read for coral losses ..
Keeping a open mind regardless

 

[Rp8]

You could use the small canister to tumble you GFO the small one is $18. For your AIO, a good water change and gfo will slowly lower it. You would need a small pump with it too

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I second the Hanna ULR Phosphate checker. Start with that tongrt a better idea of where your phosphates actually are. Some large water changes might help to bring the level down initially before adding GFO. I typically see that GFO is much more effective when used in a reactor vs a media bag.

More importantly how are your corals looking? Have you noticed a chance since the phosphate started to come up?

Lost some heads of frogspawn, and pink birds nest stripped away, Duncan coral pretty closed up and lost colour.

What I don't understand though, I have a hammer that closed up more than usual but is now almost normal, and my torch is fine (wasn't as open a few weeks ago) Also I have a monti cap and stellata which are doing pretty well and encrusting.

 

[rishma]

I second the Hanna ULR Phosphate checker. Start with that tongrt a better idea of where your phosphates actually are. Some large water changes might help to bring the level down initially before adding GFO. I typically see that GFO is much more effective when used in a reactor vs a media bag.

More importantly how are your corals looking? Have you noticed a chance since the phosphate started to come up?

In a small tank, I actually avoid using reactors. When I tried it stripped PO4 too aggressively and I had other issues, even when I used just a small amount of GFO. My current tank is 100L and on the rare occasion I needed GfO, I gladly used the inefficient passive mesh bag.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

You could use the small canister to tumble you GFO the small one is $18. For your AIO, a good water change and gfo will slowly lower it. You would need a small pump with it too

That's a good idea, I was going to get one of those canisters to make a co2 scrubber. Unfortunately, BRS don't ship to the UK directly, although there are ways of doing it. But I will look for a similar canister from another retailer. Thanks

 

[Brad Coughlan]

In a small tank, I actually avoid using reactors. When I tried it stripped PO4 too aggressively and I had other issues, even when I used just a small amount of GFO. My current tank is 100L and on the rare occasion I needed GfO, I gladly used the inefficient passive mesh bag.

So it should still be effective in a media bag, but just less of an aggressive decrease? If it ultimately brings it down that's fine, I was just only a bit worried that it wouldn't really work at all in a bag.

 

[rishma]

So it should still be effective in a media bag, but just less of an aggressive decrease? If it ultimately brings it down that's fine, I was just only a bit worried that it wouldn't really work at all in a bag.

Oh it definitely works in bag. I always mix with half carbon so the GFO doesn’t stick together.

My tank is an AIO, I just hang the bag in the chamber where the filter sock goes. I bought 50 little mesh bags meant for crafts/gifts from Amazon for a few dollars. I usually start with a very small amount in one bag and monitor PO4. If it stops decreasing, I add another bag in addition.

If I recall last time i did it, I overfed reef-roids and spiked PO4. I used a tablespoon of GFO (with a tablespoon of carbon). After a few days I was impatient and added another bag. After a few more days my PO4 was back in range and I removed them. Then PO4 started going back up so I added one of the bags back in and allowed it to come down more slowly. Maybe it took another week? Anyhow, when it was back in range I removed the GFO and went back to my normal PO4 management approach.

 

[Pod_01]

I’ve never observed that, but to be clear that’s far from disputing any of your observations….

Rather it’s more fact finding as we all might be missing something here…Could be some variable difference between my tanks and others…but I’ve never read this anywhere either….

- Could be your tank actually went zero and the rapid decline was incorrectly identified as the cause
- OR a could very well be it was the rapid decline in combo with another variable
- Or the rapid phosphate decline was the primary cause but my tanks had some other variable mitigating the effect

No arguing/challenging per se, but rapid phosphate decline just isn’t something I’ve read for coral losses ..
Keeping a open mind regardless

GFO tends to bind other things so with use of GFO you tend to drive other things down as well. Yes there is potential combinations.

As I mentioned I have never seen any bad reaction from corals from rising PO4, but sinking PO4 and especially sinking in the sub 0.1 ppm level was a negative experience.

One more comment from my side: If you have Acropora look at them. Acropora spp. are the corals most sensitive to sinking phosphate concentrations. Once adapted to high phosphate concentrations they may stop growing and even show STN with sinking phosphate concentrations.

Others who seen /observed the same.

Some pictures:

As I mentioned

 

[Doctorgori]

sinking PO4 and especially sinking in the sub 0.1 ppm level was a negative experience.

I agree for the most part …My initial thought is it’s the lower numbers and not the “rate” of decline …
Just thinking about the application of Lanthium: admittedly I will split the dosage, but that’s as far as my caution goes…

…And of course we are discussing this thing “within reason” … Lanthium is hardly a panacea: tang deaths among the other things…
….I dunno, if I had to pick Lanthium vs GFO …well I don’t fully trust either TBH and I’m on record here for only using 1/2 of both at the same time (just being honest as I don’t trust either, and not disputing anything per se)