Plumbing Best Practice

[Peanut]

I'm starting to plan to build my next tank...

Given the following:
A) COR 20 with it's .75" output, with its output upsized using the included 1.25" Union
B) a UV that has 2" inputs and outputs
C) 1" Neptune flow meters
D) a tank that has 25mm return lines (20mm ID)

My plan is to run 1.25" plumbing from the COR 20 to the UV (downsized 2" input)-->
1.25" plumbing out from the UV (downsized 2" output) and back as far as possible till I will downsize to 1" -->
Add a Neptune 1" flow meter and continue out at 1" -->
Then convert to 25mm and attach to tank return lines

The tank I am considering actually has two 25mm returns so I will duplicate this plumbing pattern with an additional COR20. On the second return I will build a manifold, instead of plumbing in a UV, for any other equipment I may use.


Does this sound like the best way to get max flow given the equipment?

Is there any benefit to oversizing the COR beyond 1.25"? to 1.5"? 2"?


Thank you in advance for any comments or suggestions.

 

[iceman14555]

Generally, a larger pipe will provide a higher flow at a lower velocity (pressure). While a smaller diameter pipe will increase your velocity, but restrict the amount of flow. If you increase your piping, then your pump will have to work harder to fill the void, to take advantage of the larger diameter.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

No... LOL
Option A: Run a manifold off of your core then to your UV so you can control the flow with a GATE valve and a flow meter.
Option B: Run one core pump for both your returns, then another core pump for the UV, with the UV return tied into one of your return lines. Note: you will need two check valves for this option

 

[Peanut]

No... LOL
Option A: Run a manifold off of your core then to your UV so you can control the flow with a GATE valve and a flow meter.
Option B: Run one core pump for both your returns, then another core pump for the UV, with the UV return tied into one of your return lines. Note: you will need two check valves for this option

That's great but do you care to elaborate with some sizes of plumbing given the equipment? Thats the real question....

Option A) What size out from the pump, and then to a UV with 2" in/out, and then to a 1" flow meter, and then to a 25mm return....for max flow. and why would I add a gate when I can control the pump itself. Its so much easier to grab my phone and tap a few things than physically have to be at the tank and turn a valve and then have to look at my phone anyway to check the flow rate.

Option B) What size out from the pumps, to the UV, check valves, etc....for max flow

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

That's great but do you care to elaborate with some sizes of plumbing given the equipment? Thats the real question....

Option A) What size out from the pump, and then to a UV with 2" in/out, and then to a 1" flow meter, and then to a 25mm return....for max flow. and why would I add a gate when I can control the pump itself. Its so much easier to grab my phone and tap a few things than physically have to be at the tank and turn a valve and then have to look at my phone anyway to check the flow rate.

Option B) What size out from the pumps, to the UV, check valves, etc....for max flow

Option A: 1.25" out from pump, 4" silicon tube, Check valve, plumbing "y", continue one side at 1.25 until split for two 20mm returns. Other side 1.25 gate valve- 2" UV, output UV 1" to flow meter to "Y" back into return line.
You will want to keep your return flow and your UV flow rates separate because they are very different rates. You may not want to run UV 24/7 depending on what type of tank you have.
Option B Pump A run 1.25" out until Y for 20mm return lines: Pump, silicone tube, check valve, Y to returns. Pump B: 1" through out to your run, because your 1" flow meter is your restriction and you will flow will have to be low for your UV to work proper.

 

[Peanut]

Is there any benefit to oversizing the COR beyond 1.25"? to 1.5"? 2"?

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Is there any benefit to oversizing the COR beyond 1.25"? to 1.5"? 2"?

Read @iceman14555 post #2

 

[Peanut]

Read @iceman14555 post #2

Thanks again for your response. Based on his comment alone it would not make any sense to upgrade the output of the pump at all, yet Neptune clearly states that you will get higher flow at 1.25" vs the native .75" hole in the pump. I understand there are diminishing returns, but would like to explore the options.

 

[Enderg60]

Your pipe size is dependent on how much flow you want to put through the UV. There are threads on proper sizing if you search. If you are trying to kill ich the flow rate will probably be low, a 3/4" or 1" pipe is usually fine. In this case upsizing would not do anything worth while.

If you are killing algea and need a lot of flow, yeah upsizing all the pipe will help. But the flow meter would be a BIG restriction.

 

[Adamc13o3]

If your tank has two return lines drilled into it I would run two pumps. One cor directly to the tank and one going through the UV to the tank. You can max out on one pump if you choose too and then dial in the one that goes through the UV so you can dial in the proper flow rate. Also don't under estimate how much each 45 or 90 adds for head pressure. I run two vector s2 at max and my flow meter shows 275 GPH each when max power is 1,400 GPH. Always good to have two return pumps running anyway in case one fails.

 

[Peanut]

If your tank has two return lines drilled into it I would run two pumps. One cor directly to the tank and one going through the UV to the tank. You can max out on one pump if you choose too and then dial in the one that goes through the UV so you can dial in the proper flow rate. Also don't under estimate how much each 45 or 90 adds for head pressure. I run two vector s2 at max and my flow meter shows 275 GPH each when max power is 1,400 GPH. Always good to have two return pumps running anyway in case one fails.

Yes, this is exactly what I am planning.

If you could change anything about your current setup size-wise to deliver more than 275 GPH would you?

 

[Peanut]

Your pipe size is dependent on how much flow you want to put through the UV. There are threads on proper sizing if you search. If you are trying to kill ich the flow rate will probably be low, a 3/4" or 1" pipe is usually fine. In this case upsizing would not do anything worth while.

If you are killing algea and need a lot of flow, yeah upsizing all the pipe will help. But the flow meter would be a BIG restriction.

Your approach assumes a specific wattage UV and then you plumb to that...I am approaching this from the other side of the equation. I want to maximize my flow, and then get the appropriate size UV for that flow that I will have. Regardless of the UV i select, it will have 2" in and out.

 

[Adamc13o3]

Yes, this is exactly what I am planning.

If you could change anything about your current setup size-wise to deliver more than 275 GPH would you?

Not really, I have a 112 gallon tank. The total water volume is 100 gallons with the sump. I’m getting 5 to 5.5 times turnover. I think that’s perfect. I can change out my pumps if I wanted to, but I think it’s perfect and I really like knowing that if one goes down the tank continues running. I’ve had pumps on other setup go down and it’s not fun, even if you have a spare on hand it’s tedious to deal with. I like knowing I can take my time in a replacement and not be under pressure.

 

[ca1ore]

A few observations:

1. Although I have not ever used a COR pump, I have used many pressure rated pumps and they all performed better with larger diameter plumbing. For example, a PanWorld 250 moved 1,200 GPH through 1” flex PVC, but 1,600 through 1 1/2” flex PVC. Same head pressure but lower friction resistance.
2. AC pumps like the PanWord are decades reliable, so I never felt the need for redundant pumps. If I were using something like the COR, I probably would at least keep a spare on hand.
3. The UV is not specified. The required flow depends upon the wattage of the bulb or the goal for the unit. If clarification is the goal, versus sterilization, then the flow can be much higher. For years I ran the TMC 110 watt sterilizer - not unreasonably priced for a unit of that size (though it is physically large) which allowed me to achieve sterilization at 1,100 GPH.
4. The 1” Neptune flow meter is quite restrictive to flow. I would suggest looking at the 2” version.

 

[Peanut]

A few observations:

1. Although I have not ever used a COR pump, I have used many pressure rated pumps and they all performed better with larger diameter plumbing. For example, a PanWorld 250 moved 1,200 GPH through 1” flex PVC, but 1,600 through 1 1/2” flex PVC. Same head pressure but lower friction resistance.
2. AC pumps like the PanWord are decades reliable, so I never felt the need for redundant pumps. If I were using something like the COR, I probably would at least keep a spare on hand.
3. The UV is not specified. The required flow depends upon the wattage of the bulb or the goal for the unit. If clarification is the goal, versus sterilization, then the flow can be much higher. For years I ran the TMC 110 watt sterilizer - not unreasonably priced for a unit of that size (though it is physically large) which allowed me to achieve sterilization at 1,100 GPH.
4. The 1” Neptune flow meter is quite restrictive to flow. I would suggest looking at the 2” version.

1. Great info, tyvm. Just curious, what is the size of the output on the Panworld 250?

2. I will be running two for sure. I agree, 10 years ago I was running japanese Iwaki pumps.

3. Amazing, this is kind of what I'm looking for. not sure that big exactly . I have a closet behind the wall the tank will be on that I am planning to use for UV and anything else large. How big was the tank the TMC 110 was on?

4. Totally agree....but how much should that really matter when the next step after the flow meter is the 25mm return line to the tank? (20mm inside diameter, basically equivalent of 3/4")

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

1. Great info, tyvm. Just curious, what is the size of the output on the Panworld 250?

2. I will be running two for sure. I agree, 10 years ago I was running japanese Iwaki pumps.

3. Amazing, this is kind of what I'm looking for. not sure that big exactly . I have a closet behind the wall the tank will be on that I am planning to use for UV and anything else large. How big was the tank the TMC 110 was on?

4. Totally agree....but how much should that really matter when the next step after the flow meter is the 25mm return line to the tank? (20mm inside diameter, basically equivalent of 3/4")

If you want a higher flow through your UV, you can always pick up in one part of your sump and return to another. and not worry about the restriction of your returns.

 

[BillFish Coral Lover]

I'm starting to plan to build my next tank...

Given the following:
A) COR 20 with it's .75" output, with its output upsized using the included 1.25" Union
B) a UV that has 2" inputs and outputs
C) 1" Neptune flow meters
D) a tank that has 25mm return lines (20mm ID)

My plan is to run 1.25" plumbing from the COR 20 to the UV (downsized 2" input)-->
1.25" plumbing out from the UV (downsized 2" output) and back as far as possible till I will downsize to 1" -->
Add a Neptune 1" flow meter and continue out at 1" -->
Then convert to 25mm and attach to tank return lines

The tank I am considering actually has two 25mm returns so I will duplicate this plumbing pattern with an additional COR20. On the second return I will build a manifold, instead of plumbing in a UV, for any other equipment I may use.


Does this sound like the best way to get max flow given the equipment?

Is there any benefit to oversizing the COR beyond 1.25"? to 1.5"? 2"?


Thank you in advance for any comments or suggestions.

I’m interested, especially since I’m getting ready to hard plumb my first tank soon. Now, tell me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think I saw your tank measurements or volume anywhere.

 

[Peanut]

I’m interested, especially since I’m getting ready to hard plumb my first tank soon. Now, tell me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think I saw your tank measurements or volume anywhere.

To be honest, I haven't fully decided yet. I am definitely planning on pulling the trigger on black friday. I don't know what number tank this will be for me, maybe number 10 or more in my 30+ years of saltwater tanks. 3 years ago I had a 150 gallon system that was plumbed into my garage. Sold the house and moved into a rental apartment. The apartment lease had crazy rules about the number, size, and total gallons of the tanks I could keep. To maximize what I could do under their rules, I ended up buying a Redsea 300XL, an extra Redsea 300XL stand, and a Fiji Cube 57 Gallon that I put on the second stand and plumbed into the Redsea 300XL's sump. 2 tanks 1 sump. I took what I could from my 150 gallon to the apartment. I was at the apartment for about 7 months and then bought another house. I moved the two tanks as they were and have been just waiting. After two years of waiting, it's time to upgrade.

I have 8' of wall to work with, and there is a 3'x3' closet behind the wall for things like UV, RO/DI, ATO, a chiller if needed, etc. Most likely the tank + sump will be 250-300 gallons.

 

[ca1ore]

1. Great info, tyvm. Just curious, what is the size of the output on the Panworld 250?

2. I will be running two for sure. I agree, 10 years ago I was running japanese Iwaki pumps.

3. Amazing, this is kind of what I'm looking for. not sure that big exactly . I have a closet behind the wall the tank will be on that I am planning to use for UV and anything else large. How big was the tank the TMC 110 was on?

4. Totally agree....but how much should that really matter when the next step after the flow meter is the 25mm return line to the tank? (20mm inside diameter, basically equivalent of 3/4")

PW250 is native 1” on both suction and pressure. TMC 100 was on a 450. Problem is that if you want sterilization, rather than just clarification, you really need to not exceed 10 GPH per watt. If the UV is too small, then at that rate you cannot get enough of the tank volume through it. I actually ran the TMC110 on my siphon drain - probably not recommended, but I was able to make it work.

Like I said, if flow is a problem (as it was for me) considering the 2” neptune flow meter may be a good idea. If you minimize the length of the 25 mm piping, then the impact on flow will be reduced. When I upsized my plumbing to 1 1/2” I still had about 8” of 1” pipe going into the final bulkhead.

 

[BillFish Coral Lover]

To be honest, I haven't fully decided yet. I am definitely planning on pulling the trigger on black friday. I don't know what number tank this will be for me, maybe number 10 or more in my 30+ years of saltwater tanks. 3 years ago I had a 150 gallon system that was plumbed into my garage. Sold the house and moved into a rental apartment. The apartment lease had crazy rules about the number, size, and total gallons of the tanks I could keep. To maximize what I could do under their rules, I ended up buying a Redsea 300XL, an extra Redsea 300XL stand, and a Fiji Cube 57 Gallon that I put on the second stand and plumbed into the Redsea 300XL's sump. 2 tanks 1 sump. I took what I could from my 150 gallon to the apartment. I was at the apartment for about 7 months and then bought another house. I moved the two tanks as they were and have been just waiting. After two years of waiting, it's time to upgrade.

I have 8' of wall to work with, and there is a 3'x3' closet behind the wall for things like UV, RO/DI, ATO, a chiller if needed, etc. Most likely the tank + sump will be 250-300 gallons.

Dream system. Awesome. I’m downsizing due to financial and space constrictions. Congratulations and good luck!l