Plumbing 65g help

[NancyFish]

Any plumbing tips welcome, first timer..

Is it a bad idea to connect both the emergency drain & main drain from one of those ESHOPPS over flows?

I want to use that Red Sea roller mat, which wants you to plumb directly in it. Would I hard plumb and then use their flex tube, or better to hard plumb directly in?

I saw gate valves for the return drains, or maybe just one (if I didn’t connect both)? I think I read 45s are better than 90 if I need a turn. Are check valves a needed on the return? I know everyone’s system is difference so I feel a little scattered. And then unions under every connecting part - sound about right?

Orginally I wanted to place my sump on an extended bottom shelf, so the pipe just drops straight down, but now considering the roller mat, that doesn’t feel like an option. Just wanted to keep it simple to prevent any potential leaks down the line

 

[Crabs McJones]

Emergency needs to be it's own drain. If a clog happens in the line after the main and emergency meet up, the emergency drain will serve no purpose. Do a main drain with a gate valve, and have the emergency drain just run straight into the sump with no restrictor

 

[nereefpat]

I agree with Crabs. Send the siphon (main) drain the the mat, and the trickle/emergency to somewhere else in the sump.

The 2 drains are separate for safety and redundancy.

 

[iannarelli]

I'm currently setting up a 60 cube and went with 90s for my drain pipes to maximize space in the sump area. BRStv did an Investigates video about the difference and while I haven't watched it in a while, I believe they found there was very little difference between them for the majority of use cases.

 

[NancyFish]

I agree with Crabs. Send the siphon (main) drain the the mat, and the trickle/emergency to somewhere else in the sump.

The 2 drains are separate for safety and redundancy.

Little late but taking this to mind. Finally pulled the trigger on a modular marine which has a 3 drain system. Feels intimidating but once and done.

Only thing is it says 1200 overflow - but the drain pipes are only 3/4” (meaning maybe 4-500gph for main drain) — should I do a 3/4 to 1” connector to open that flow up better?

 

[nereefpat]

Little late but taking this to mind. Finally pulled the trigger on a modular marine which has a 3 drain system. Feels intimidating but once and done.

Only thing is it says 1200 overflow - but the drain pipes are only 3/4” (meaning maybe 4-500gph for main drain) — should I do a 3/4 to 1” connector to open that flow up better?

I'm surprised it doesn't use 1" bulkheads. There is no way a it can safely and quietly handle 1200 gph with a single 3/4" main drain. Of the 3 drains, one will be a siphon and one will be just a trickle, and one will be dry.

I'm not sure how much flow potential would increase by upsizing to 1" after the bulkheads. I'm inclined to say "some, but not as much as you might think."

 

[iannarelli]

Little late but taking this to mind. Finally pulled the trigger on a modular marine which has a 3 drain system. Feels intimidating but once and done.

Only thing is it says 1200 overflow - but the drain pipes are only 3/4” (meaning maybe 4-500gph for main drain) — should I do a 3/4 to 1” connector to open that flow up better?

I actually reached out to MM about this before getting the 1200 gph overflow for my 60 cube build. This is the response I got back:

​

Hi Darryl, both the 800 and 1200 models are too small for 1" bulkhead drains. We have made custom 1200 models with 1" drains but I wouldn't recommend it unless a 12" overflow is the largest you can fit. Our 1600 model comes stock with 1" drains and will work great for a 60 gal. ​

I felt the 1600 model was too wide and wouldn't leave a whole bunch of room for my to drill the bulkheads for my return lines. I found this chart in another post, so it seems like MM is taking the 400 gph maximum under gravity and multiplying it by 3.

I doubt I'll need more than 6x turnover via the return in my tank (can machine "in-tank" turnover with my power heads), but I do feel some type of way thinking the overflow i purchased could handle more.

 

[NancyFish]

I'm surprised it doesn't use 1" bulkheads. There is no way a it can safely and quietly handle 1200 gph with a single 3/4" main drain. Of the 3 drains, one will be a siphon and one will be just a trickle, and one will be dry.

I'm not sure how much flow potential would increase by upsizing to 1" after the bulkheads. I'm inclined to say "some, but not as much as you might think."

Investigating this whole thing has me thinking all the overflow estimates are bull. I wouldn’t care since everyone uses them matching similar tank specs but trying to match equipment and return pumps has my head spinning.

 

[NancyFish]

I actually reached out to MM about this before getting the 1200 gph overflow for my 60 cube build. This is the response I got back:

​

Hi Darryl, both the 800 and 1200 models are too small for 1" bulkhead drains. We have made custom 1200 models with 1" drains but I wouldn't recommend it unless a 12" overflow is the largest you can fit. Our 1600 model comes stock with 1" drains and will work great for a 60 gal. ​

I felt the 1600 model was too wide and wouldn't leave a whole bunch of room for my to drill the bulkheads for my return lines. I found this chart in another post, so it seems like MM is taking the 400 gph maximum under gravity and multiplying it by 3.

I doubt I'll need more than 6x turnover via the return in my tank (can machine "in-tank" turnover with my power heads), but I do feel some type of way thinking the overflow i purchased could handle more.

What did you end up going with? I saw the 1600 too, and thought the same. I messaged them yesterday because I thought maybe they need to use two of the three drains consistently to match specs or something, they told me — “Typically you want your main line at a full siphon and the secondary running at 25-75%.”, and to match my return line plumbing size.

I didn’t even think of the fact my sump is running 1” drain heads to top it off. I wonder why they don’t recommend the bigger drains on it - someone else here recommend just to do a 3/4” to 1” connector. Not sure what I want to do.

 

[KStatefan]

Investigating this whole thing has me thinking all the overflow estimates are bull. I wouldn’t care since everyone uses them matching similar tank specs but trying to match equipment and return pumps has my head spinning.

What are you targeting for flow?

If you take the full siphon drain and up size the plumbing to 1" with a 36 inch drop it will flow well more then 1200 gph.

I do not have a modular marine overflow but assumed that the capacities were based on the slots in the weir.

 

[iannarelli]

I

What did you end up going with? I saw the 1600 too, and thought the same. I messaged them yesterday because I thought maybe they need to use two of the three drains consistently to match specs or something, they told me — “Typically you want your main line at a full siphon and the secondary running at 25-75%.”, and to match my return line plumbing size.

I didn’t even think of the fact my sump is running 1” drain heads to top it off. I wonder why they don’t recommend the bigger drains on it - someone else here recommend just to do a 3/4” to 1” connector. Not sure what I want to do.

I got the 1200, and am just going to use the 3/4" drain lines. I have a 60 gallon cube so even maxed out at 440 gph give me 7x turnover, and I'll probably run less than that for my UV. Rest of the flow will come from power heads. Plumbing isn't going to be done until next weekend the earliest, so I could switch to 1 inch if it would be better. I didn't realize that increasing the size of the drain after the bulkhead would increase the flow rate (per @KStatefan), I figured it would be restricted by the bulkhead fitting size. I also don't think I've ever heard that you want the secondary drain running at 25-75%...

 

[iannarelli]

What are you targeting for flow?

If you take the full siphon drain and up size the plumbing to 1" with a 36 inch drop it will flow well more then 1200 gph.

I do not have a modular marine overflow but assumed that the capacities were based on the slots in the weir.

Hmmmm, you're probably right about the rating referring to the weir. Just feels a little disingenuous to call in 1200gph if the overflow box can't drain that quickly unless you were to run three 3/4" full siphons (lol) with no emergency backups. I'll admit to being a newbie, but from what I've read for bean animal, it's siphon, secondary at a trickle (or primary tuned with gate valve so secondary doesn't have any flow), and an emergency.

 

[NancyFish]

Hmmmm, you're probably right about the rating referring to the weir. Just feels a little disingenuous to call in 1200gph if the overflow box can't drain that quickly unless you were to run three 3/4" full siphons (lol) with no emergency backups. I'll admit to being a newbie, but from what I've read for bean animal, it's siphon, secondary at a trickle (or primary tuned with gate valve so secondary doesn't have any flow), and an emergency.

I feel the same way, and you’re right about the pipes. MM told me the secondary trickle can run at 25-75%, I don’t think all three would ever run unless you want to risk overflowing. They seemed unphased by questioning the GPH. They also told me this morning they can make the 1600 (non low profile) box in 12 inches with 1” drains but no room for u pipes and bulkier. Eshopps runs their 1000 model in 12” with 1” pipes for half the price - looking tempting.

 

[NancyFish]

I

I got the 1200, and am just going to use the 3/4" drain lines. I have a 60 gallon cube so even maxed out at 440 gph give me 7x turnover, and I'll probably run less than that for my UV. Rest of the flow will come from power heads. Plumbing isn't going to be done until next weekend the earliest, so I could switch to 1 inch if it would be better. I didn't realize that increasing the size of the drain after the bulkhead would increase the flow rate (per @KStatefan), I figured it would be restricted by the bulkhead fitting size. I also don't think I've ever heard that you want the secondary drain running at 25-75%...

This is all new to me so I have no idea. I’ve read the same about the 1200 being plenty for the 60-65g tank but like they pointed out the 3/4” to 1” plays a big difference in potential. Someone mentioned just doing a 3/4” to 1” adaptor at the overflow to maybe get some extra umpth.

BRS has a discount+25% off right now on the eshops L eclipse that’s 1000 running on 1” drains, it’s like half the price practically as the modular marine, just doesn’t look as nice as the low profile and the external drops down. My head is spinning from trying to make the right choice

 

[iannarelli]

I feel the same way, and you’re right about the pipes. MM told me the secondary trickle can run at 25-75%, I don’t think all three would ever run unless you want to risk overflowing. They seemed unphased by questioning the GPH. They also told me this morning they can make the 1600 (non low profile) box in 12 inches with 1” drains but no room for u pipes and bulkier. Eshopps runs their 1000 model in 12” with 1” pipes for half the price - looking tempting.

That last pipe should be higher than the primary and secondary so that it ONLY flows when the other two are backed up. The end of that emergency drain should also be a couple inches above the surface of the water in your sump so that you hear it crashing into the water.

As for the secondary, it should be higher than the primary and if you're using a gate valve on the primary, you can partially close it to raise the water level on your overflow (and this your display tank) such that you either get the water to be just below, ever with, it just trickle over the top of the secondary. Again, I've never heard or running a secondary drain at anything more than a trickle. MM is suggesting 100 to 300 gph on the secondary? I only want that much flow in my secondary because there's a problem with my primary.

If you look through my posts I have a bunch of recent ones about plumbing and two that are asking about the overflow setup. I'm on an airplane right now otherwise I'd find you the link.

 

[NancyFish]

That last pipe should be higher than the primary and secondary so that it ONLY flows when the other two are backed up. The end of that emergency drain should also be a couple inches above the surface of the water in your sump so that you hear it crashing into the water.

As for the secondary, it should be higher than the primary and if you're using a gate valve on the primary, you can partially close it to raise the water level on your overflow (and this your display tank) such that you either get the water to be just below, ever with, it just trickle over the top of the secondary. Again, I've never heard or running a secondary drain at anything more than a trickle. MM is suggesting 100 to 300 gph on the secondary? I only want that much flow in my secondary because there's a problem with my primary.

If you look through my posts I have a bunch of recent ones about plumbing and two that are asking about the overflow setup. I'm on an airplane right now otherwise I'd find you the link.

Thanks for clarifying, maybe they’re just suggesting more than a trickle as a way to appease me when I questioned their 1200 unit would likely barely get half of that with a 3/4” pipe. Would you have made the same choice again looking back before you bought it?

 

[iannarelli]

This is all new to me so I have no idea. I’ve read the same about the 1200 being plenty for the 60-65g tank but like they pointed out the 3/4” to 1” plays a big difference in potential. Someone mentioned just doing a 3/4” to 1” adaptor at the overflow to maybe get some extra umpth.

BRS has a discount+25% off right now on the eshops L eclipse that’s 1000 running on 1” drains, it’s like half the price practically as the modular marine, just doesn’t look as nice as the low profile and the external drops down. My head is spinning from trying to make the right choice

Some of the reviews for the eshopps aren't great... But usually when a product works correctly there less incentive to go write a glowing review.

The MM will be much better build quality. That being said, it would seem if MM made the the standard inside dimensions of the 1200gph overflow box half an inch deeper and maybe a little wider it would fit three 1 inch bulkheads no problem.

How big is your tank, what return pump are you going to use, and how much flow are you trying to generate with your return line(s)? My understanding is that you really only need 3-5x turnover from the returns.

 

[NancyFish]

Some of the reviews for the eshopps aren't great... But usually when a product works correctly there less incentive to go write a glowing review.

The MM will be much better build quality. That being said, it would seem if MM made the the standard inside dimensions of the 1200gph overflow box half an inch deeper and maybe a little wider it would fit three 1 inch bulkheads no problem.

How big is your tank, what return pump are you going to use, and how much flow are you trying to generate with your return line(s)? My understanding is that you really only need 3-5x turnover from the returns.

That was my hang up with the modular marine, eshopps have iffy reviews but at least they’re more commonly bought/familar - so that kind of cancels out since MM have no where to put reviews (besides here) but they seem better made.

I don’t think I need a ton of flow, but I’d hate to be limited down the line because I chose the lower profile MM box over the eshopps. Also worried if I just did the 3/4” to 1” connector that I cause a leak. Probly just paranoid in general.

I have a 65g tank that will drain into a 250 reefmat (max 900gph) sitting in a 25 cube sump. My return pump is a sicce sdc 7 (800-1900), which feels too much learning about the overflow, but it has to pump up 4-5feet.

 

[KStatefan]

Hmmmm, you're probably right about the rating referring to the weir. Just feels a little disingenuous to call in 1200gph if the overflow box can't drain that quickly unless you were to run three 3/4" full siphons (lol) with no emergency backups. I'll admit to being a newbie, but from what I've read for bean animal, it's siphon, secondary at a trickle (or primary tuned with gate valve so secondary doesn't have any flow), and an emergency.

It would not take three full siphons to flow 1200 gph on a normal aquarium. With a 36 inch drop gravity flow would be 1150 gph then subtractiong friction losses you are down to 900 of so depending on plumbing.