Please help before I walk away from reefing
- Thread starter StrangeDejavu
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K first off. GREAT TANK!I used Real Reef rock and Fiji Pink live sand. And I would love to set up an algae scrubber but it's just not doable in a BioCube. I have considered adding an InTank refugium basket and filling it with chaeto but I don't know how much that'll help since HA grows faster than chaeto in my experience.
Here's some pics before the HA got bad.
And here's how it looked at its peak.
And this one is about a week or two old, before my last big cleanout.
I was seeing some great results when I was running GFO, doing weekly 25% and dosing Vibrant. I guess I just need to stick with that regimen again and keep at it.
IMO, IME, my .02
heres my take on algae. Dont let it in the tank. most dip for bugs(bayer), few dip for algae, if they do, they don't even realize it.(revive), and nobody likes to qt corals.
AIO's. they have thier limits and imo are harder than most tanks including my old 20l w the aquaclears. stuff gets trapped in the back and rots. its hard to get a skimmer in there but really you should if for no other reason than gas exchange. so keep it running.
Sand. go dsb or shallow enough to vacuum. and then vacuum. with no sump(large gravity filter, yea gravity) particles that dont get skimmed or trapped go back in the tank like dust and land on the sand.
the tank is so new the bio filter and micro flora and fauna have not balanced themselves.
CUC, if I cant see them in the picture you dont have enough. once you beat down the algae, snails eat stuff you cant see. sprouts and seeds and spores and eggs and diatoms and dino's. get a variety. it really does work.
Algaecide. Im not opposed to them. But understand what they do(even though nobody knows what vibrant does or side kills or will admit to it.) Its getting good results at killing, it will take some time. so once you have it on the ropes, get something to eat it(snails) and then be prepared to rebuild the biofilter as i'm pretty sure it effets that too.
AIOs have thier limits. I abandoned my JBJ cube because I couldnt make it do what I wanted esp as far as food and export goes. besides the light being horrible, the recommended skimmer was trash. and i wasnt about to hack it to the extent I should or could have because I figured a new tank would be cheaper. so they do have their limits.(to make it easier on myself I went with a 30 cube and back to my aquaclear and $14 hob fuge, no really i did.)
There's nothing wrong with chem filtration(actually export) and in an aio, besides mechanical is can be your best friend, but just watch how much it pulls out. this from the guy who advocates promotes the $14 hob refugium, but that's hard to do on an aio. so changing the technique for nutrient export is a must. chem or even look into a macro reactor.
Forgive me if im suggesting stuff your already doing, im just blurting out suggestions and hopefully making ya think a bit. Your awfully close to success. and FYI, a tank really changes after a year. and after two its a different animal. like a puppy. or husband.
gcrawford
Valuable Member
Stability..... my goodness I've never done that much work with my tanks. At first I did want to use every type of reactor, media and obsessed over numbers and water changes. IMO, keep alk and cal up, use correct lighting, skim a little wet and add a little magnesium occasionally. It's never going to be perfect, but so much fun to watch things mature which can take years. I use pellet food for the fish and reef chili once weekly - all sparingly. I tend to believe that early algae issues come from phosphates in the rock. I could be wrong about that, but it seemed for me that when I just let things take their course, the early algae consumed the nutrients until they were gone. Best of luck and maybe try sitting back and watching changes that take place due to nature, not due to the changes you made to the tank and filtration methods. FWIW, I did try a sea hare and it died and almost crashed everything (ink came out) but luckily I was home and got him out quickly. Shooooweee!
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StrangeDejavu
Active Member
Yeah i'm not a big fan of adding fish or other critters to control something, because then you have to figure out what to do with them once the problem is resolved (CUC aside). And I did try the sit back and wait method, and the longer I went without intervening, the worse things got. I never had any issues early on with this tank, it wasn't until almost month 5 that everything popped up while I was gone. I asked about that on here and the responses I received all said 5 months in isn't the "new tank nasties" but something that should be dealt with rather than allowing it to ride out.
Thank you for the in depth reply! To address a few of these things:
AIO: I absolutely agree. I originally started with a 40 breeder and 20 long sump but had to downgrade due to space in a new house. The downgrade was this BioCube. I feel like all these issues would be resolved with a quality skimmer and an algae scrubber. That said, I do my best on maintenance day to remove the media basket and siphone out any detritus I see in all 3 chambers. As far as skimmers go, I started out with the cheap wooden airstone one from Coralife. It worked decently with some modding and pulled some dark brown sludge, but I hated the drop in performance that comes with a wooden airstone that needs changed regularly. I upgraded to a Tunze 9001 and for the life of me I could never get the thing dialed in. No matter the depth or how I tuned it, I couldn't get a solid foam head out of it. It was pure water or nothing at all. Microbubbles for days too so I took it out.
Sand: I gravel vac it each WC and only have about 1 inch currently.
CUC: I used to have a healthy number of Trochus snails but because of a dinoflagellate problem, they never seem to live longer than 2 months. My hermits are fine, they're the original ones I moved over from the 40 but the snails just don't last for me. I know how to defeat the dinos because i've done it previously, but the problem is i'm still stocking my tank with coral from a store that clearly has dinos.
Chem filtration: I currently run floss, Purigen, GFO and ROX carbon in a media basket. I have seen an improvement since running GFO but since it's only in a baggy, it's not as efficient as a reactor and probably clumps up pretty quick. That said, it does seem to slow the growth rate of the HA by about 50% but does not keep it under control.
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StrangeDejavu
Active Member
Thanks!
Funny enough, I just mentioned how I could never get a foam head on my Tunze 9001. I just installed it again and what'dya know... it's skimming. We'll see how this goes over the next few weeks combined with some of these suggestions.
FlyinBryan
Well-Known Member
Oh man sorry about the tank. Sounds like you were doing everything you could. Happened to me as well. I broke it down and started over. It is a real hands on kind of a tank.
I had a friend who had no filtration whatsoever on his 14g bc and it ran with very little algae. He was a biology major so I think he some kind of a magic touch.
Good luck!
I had a friend who had no filtration whatsoever on his 14g bc and it ran with very little algae. He was a biology major so I think he some kind of a magic touch.
Good luck!
yea talk nice to it and raise it by millimeters.Thanks!
Funny enough, I just mentioned how I could never get a foam head on my Tunze 9001. I just installed it again and what'dya know... it's skimming. We'll see how this goes over the next few weeks combined with some of these suggestions.
they must be done with thier work.
it never will. coral and algae eat the same thing. you have to get it out of the tank.
QT. and dip in other than pesticides.
itll settle in.
Sm51498
Active Member
I don't buy the introduction theory of algae problems because I don't think you can keep it out, no matter how well you dip or qt.
I'm certain that if you somehow avoid introducing it, you will not get it but if you have corals I don't think that is possible.
My feeling is that instead you should build a system that can cope with it. I've never started a tank that didn't have algae, diatoms or cyanobacteria at one point or another but they have all overcome it with just sone manual removal. however, I seek out massive biodiversity. I use the best live rock I can get, Tampa Bay Saltwater btw, and then I also do crazy stuff like get mud from live rock tanks at stores. I theorize this helps my tanks find a balance with a high diversity of critters.
I'm certain that if you somehow avoid introducing it, you will not get it but if you have corals I don't think that is possible.
My feeling is that instead you should build a system that can cope with it. I've never started a tank that didn't have algae, diatoms or cyanobacteria at one point or another but they have all overcome it with just sone manual removal. however, I seek out massive biodiversity. I use the best live rock I can get, Tampa Bay Saltwater btw
, and then I also do crazy stuff like get mud from live rock tanks at stores. I theorize this helps my tanks find a balance with a high diversity of critters.
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StrangeDejavu
Active Member
Have you ever used
I haven't, i've only ever used standard BRS GFO. The fact that that stuff is aluminium has always scared me away.
Same here dude. My Dad has a BioCube 29 as well, he set his up 2 months before I did. We bought the same live rock and used the same live sand. We buy coral from the same store and use the same salt and the same RODI water. He has kind of a "not gonna dwell on it" attitude about his tank, he feeds it once a day and does a 25% WC twice a month and that's it. No skimmer. No chemical filtration. Budget pump and budget light. Hardly any algae aside from a few small areas of bryopsis and a few things of bubble algae. I've showed him how much I feed my fish before and he said he feeds way more than I do. Plus, he feeds all his coral which i've had to give up due to the HA. I can't figure out what's different for the life of me.
van7271
Active Member
I had an algae, several different kinds including hair, and cyano problem. I was told to try Nualgi. I was extremely skeptical as I think most of those products are snake oil. After being at the end of my rope I gave in and ordered the Nualgi. Within a week all of the cyano was gone and after 3 weeks 90 percent of the algae was gone. I don't know how well it will work for you as all tanks are a little different but I can say form me it was a game changer. I here good thing about the vibrant also mentioned in this thread.
then lets both agree on that one.
most tanks are clean. theres nothing to compete. invite one organism with no competition, boom
daltonx13
New Member
I am a serial reefer, I have about 5 tanks going on separate systems and can say each and everyone of them has had their HA outbreak. To be honest I believe that this is a natural occurrence of the tank balancing itself. HA will go away with time if you practice the right reef keeping methods. I believe sometimes we try to do to much and prolong these cycles. Research cleaning crews, drain the fluids from your frozen foods, and hold off on purchasing things. At the 4 month mark your doing fine.
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StrangeDejavu
Active Member
I'm actually about to hit my 9 month mark, that's the frustrating part. And i've thought about rinsing LRS Reef Frenzy but the stuff is already so clean when it hits a cup of water.
it makes my tank break out in cyano. weird right? But not 70 people I know. but 3 I know it does.
Sm51498
Active Member
That is the crux of it, competition and consumption. I feel like either I can do it manually or I can get a critter that will do it for me
Good on you if you can avoid it entirely by never putting it in. that sounds really hard, you have to be so careful.
eh, no. not really. revive peroxide bayer iodine tooth brush, standard stuff. mine just sit in a qt for a few weeks. pretty easy, im lazy. I can scoop a cup of tank water in a cup and add a il peroxide and toss it back in the qt. revive I rinse a little better. see an aptasia, kill with fire and toss it back in and not watch it spit 10000000 babies out in the dt.
fwiw most folks start to freak out when I say what algaes I have in my display tank.(i like to experiment with husbandry and competition) ya cant see any of it though really.
if I get a real bad guy Id rather nuke the qt. if I dont rise the bayer well, id rather the qt get nuked too. I have way too many bugs in the DT doing the work for me there.
IMO there's two distinct styles. natural and sterile. Natureal requires husbandry and balancing populations. Sterile needs algaecides and pesticides. both work and will grow coral and have healthy fish. both have pros and cons and both have livestock limitations IMO.. neither are better except what you/I/WE prefer to do.
Sm51498
Active Member
I can't say I've tried it but yeah, I agree both methods have limitations and are definitely driven by preference. I've always felt that maintaining a totally controlled environment was too much work but then, I think nothing of spending hours of my life cleaning detritus, manually removing the algae and stuff that does grow and doing lots of water changes. so I feel like you're probably right, it probably isn't any harder, I just end up putting in effort elsewhere.
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