Phytoplankton=Nutrients?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m just not seeing where the nutrients would go unless you remove the phytoplankton.

If it is eaten, much of that N and P will get back into the system, I expect. Perhaps corals are different than fish in that regard, however.

 

[SauceyReef]

How much do you dose? For reference my tank is 30g, and what else are you running for phosphate reduction?

I have a bag of chemipure blue running in my AIO overflow and I barely feed my tank, like 1/3 a cube of mysis daily with only two fish. I just don’t know how my phosphates could have hit .2

I feed the same I have always been feeding - heavily with Mysis. I use the recommended amount for live phyto and Benepets. I run nothing for phosphate reduction. No filtration, no skimmer. Just a fuge with some macro algae in the back as I have been doing for 4 years now on this tank.

 

[SauceyReef]

I’m just not seeing where the nutrients would go unless you remove the phytoplankton.

If it is eaten, much of that N and P will get back into the system, I expect. Perhaps corals are different than fish in that regard, however.

Here is a theory. The Live Phyto collects nutrients, than gets removed from the tank during water changes?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here is a theory. The Live Phyto collects nutrients, than gets removed from the tank during water changes?

That might be.

 

[SauceyReef]

How much do you dose? For reference my tank is 30g, and what else are you running for phosphate reduction?

I have a bag of chemipure blue running in my AIO overflow and I barely feed my tank, like 1/3 a cube of mysis daily with only two fish. I just don’t know how my phosphates could have hit .2

From a massive discussion on here you can find (LMK if you need the link) I learned from Randy Holmes and others that PO4 easily absorbs into stuff like liverock, sand, and especially plastic/silicon in the tank. And than it leaches out into the water column. So if you change all your water and do PO4 test a few hours later, the PO4 will be pretty much the same. I have never tried it with NO3, but I believe it would big time change the results until 24 hours. It also builds up in dead areas of the tank. Regularly cleaning out all the areas of my tank and rock has helped a lot reduce PO4 (took near a year).

My two tanks that have no silicon or plastic in them (basically all glass) seem to often bottom out! I feed them reefroids and a plethora of food on a regular basis - a concerning amount and they look lovely, but still always ride low nutrients.. My Fluval Evo AIO tank with a lot of plastic and silicon from the back chambers is the opposite - PO4 always rides high. GFO seems to be the best way to consistently and quickly lower it, but my corals and tank didnt seem to take well to it.

There is a secret ingredient I use and love that seems to change the game - Live Phyto.. If you get strong enough stuff, or enough different strains, and dose heavy or long term it can start to wipe out nutrients (concerningly quickly sometimes). So with the right balance it helps me get my tank going from .5-1.0 ppm PO4 to around .1-.3. I could dose more, but I get scared it will bottom out. From experience though I think if your consisntetly dosing live phyto and other foods even if you are bottomed out the corals are getting enough food in the water column on a daily and are happy.

Macro Algaes barely absorb much PO4, and most foods are PO4 high which makes it extra complicating. I think a common problem for reefers is Nitrates going down, while PO4 going up. It seems to be an inverse relationship.

- Edit - Just realized this is an old thread. Hopefully somone finds this useful!

 

[Reefing_addiction]

From a massive discussion on here you can find (LMK if you need the link) I learned from Randy Holmes and others that PO4 easily absorbs into stuff like liverock, sand, and especially plastic/silicon in the tank. And than it leaches out into the water column. So if you change all your water and do PO4 test a few hours later, the PO4 will be pretty much the same. I have never tried it with NO3, but I believe it would big time change the results until 24 hours. It also builds up in dead areas of the tank. Regularly cleaning out all the areas of my tank and rock has helped a lot reduce PO4 (took near a year).

My two tanks that have no silicon or plastic in them (basically all glass) seem to often bottom out! I feed them reefroids and a plethora of food on a regular basis - a concerning amount and they look lovely, but still always ride low nutrients.. My Fluval Evo AIO tank with a lot of plastic and silicon from the back chambers is the opposite - PO4 always rides high. GFO seems to be the best way to consistently and quickly lower it, but my corals and tank didnt seem to take well to it.

There is a secret ingredient I use and love that seems to change the game - Live Phyto.. If you get strong enough stuff, or enough different strains, and dose heavy or long term it can start to wipe out nutrients (concerningly quickly sometimes). So with the right balance it helps me get my tank going from .5-1.0 ppm PO4 to around .1-.3. I could dose more, but I get scared it will bottom out. From experience though I think if your consisntetly dosing live phyto and other foods even if you are bottomed out the corals are getting enough food in the water column on a daily and are happy.

Macro Algaes barely absorb much PO4, and most foods are PO4 high which makes it extra complicating. I think a common problem for reefers is Nitrates going down, while PO4 going up. It seems to be an inverse relationship.

- Edit - Just realized this is an old thread. Hopefully somone finds this useful!

Not that old and definitely good info

I to determined phyto reduced nitrates and phosphates

Where they go no one knows

I just try watch my numbers and feed accordingly to my dose of phyto

 

[sixty_reefer]

In my experience phytoplankton alone does help in a way reduce nutrient, the decomposition of phytoplankton seems to play a important role in it.
The problem that most aquarists don’t realise it’s that they are adding more nutrients from the fertiliser used to culture the phytoplankton to their system than beneficial nutrients from phytoplankton.
Phytoplankton itself has a very low P content, that shouldn’t make a large impact in a Normal tank, the usual P and N increase is solely noticeable in several systems by the fertiliser that wasn’t consumed by the phytoplankton culture.
The only way to have better results with live phytoplankton is by using a fertiliser that has a low P to N ratio, centrifugation to separate the live phytoplankton cells from the culture water or buy freeze dried phytoplankton and rehydrate before dosing to the aquarium.

The most common fertiliser used to grow phytoplankton has a ratio of 1:1 or 2:1 N P and phytoplankton is believed to consume N P at a ratio of 16:1 or higher.
I had better results with live phytoplankton as I changed to a fertiliser that was 15:1 N P that left me with a smaller P concentration in the culture water although it was still present after the usual 7 days.

 

[Hats_]

i once measured out of curiosity what the nitrate and phosphate concentration was in the water the phytoplankton came in. by letting it sink and then taking a sample using a syringe with a filter and then checking the concentrations with a hanna checker I found pretty high concentrations of 50ppm nitrate and 2ppm phosphate. off course this gets diluted in the aquarium water but i'd say the chances of that little bit of phyto actually lowering no3 in the tank is pretty slim if you add it in a solution that already has this much in it.

 

[Reefing_addiction]

i once measured out of curiosity what the nitrate and phosphate concentration was in the water the phytoplankton came in. by letting it sink and then taking a sample using a syringe with a filter and then checking the concentrations with a hanna checker I found pretty high concentrations of 50ppm nitrate and 2ppm phosphate. off course this gets diluted in the aquarium water but i'd say the chances of that little bit of phyto actually lowering no3 in the tank is pretty slim if you add it in a solution that already has this much in it.

I would add 60ml of phyto to my 75gal tank. Green water went to clear less than an hour. When I did this daily I fought to keep my no3/po4 above 0

I stoped adding phyto and my no3/po4 has been more consistent once I got it up to 15/.23

Nothing else changed.

So I would say phyto will lower those numbers

 

[Hats_]

I would add 60ml of phyto to my 75gal tank. Green water went to clear less than an hour. When I did this daily I fought to keep my no3/po4 above 0

I stoped adding phyto and my no3/po4 has been more consistent once I got it up to 15/.23

Nothing else changed.

So I would say phyto will lower those numbers

I think it largely depends on your filtration capacity as well. for example, large skimmer or filterroller. Ive dosed phyto for a while with no discernable difference in either my corals or my nutrient concentrations

 

[SauceyReef]

I would add 60ml of phyto to my 75gal tank. Green water went to clear less than an hour. When I did this daily I fought to keep my no3/po4 above 0

I stoped adding phyto and my no3/po4 has been more consistent once I got it up to 15/.23

Nothing else changed.

So I would say phyto will lower those numbers

Same thing is happening to me on a smaller level.

I have never checked the concentration of nutrients from the live phyto, but I have a sligtly different opinion. I think so much is based on the strains and concentration of the live phyto. You can have really high nutrient fert. water to feed the phyto, but if the concentration in the bottle is very high of phyto I think you would be seeing more nutrient reduction dosing in a tank than any increase. Also comes the question if you are holding the bottle in your fridge for weeks or a month - is the phyto eating the nutrients in the bottle and still growing? Can it eventually totally wipe out the nutrients/fert. in the bottle? I would think that would happen rather quickly seeing no more food is being added, and there is limited space for any growth. It could be the fridge keeps them in a non growing or eating state.

This is an interesting thought because its begs the notion that short term live phyto feeding could increase nutrients. From my experience and most others you get a good enough bottle and long term it always starts dropping nutrients. I have also noticed from experience - if you massively over dose it just very quickly bottoms you out. Could be strain/company dependent..

After a lot of discussion and obersvation about this I think the live phyto is actively consuming the nutrients in the tank, and than being consumed by everything else. My one tank that rides at 0 nutrients for 2 years now looks amazing because the phyto eats the nutrients, and the corals eat the nutrient filled phyto. As long as I contiously dose phyto and nutrients, the cycle continues and the corals thrive.

 

[SauceyReef]

I think it largely depends on your filtration capacity as well. for example, large skimmer or filterroller. Ive dosed phyto for a while with no discernable difference in either my corals or my nutrient concentrations

And yes this as well. If you have really strong filters the phyto wont get a chance to do its job. None of my tanks have any filtration besides one having macro algae in the back.

 

[SauceyReef]

.. Dang I wish R2R let you delete a comment ..

 

[Hats_]

And yes this as well. If you have really strong filters the phyto wont get a chance to do its job. None of my tanks have any filtration besides one having macro algae in the back.

excactly, i have both a skimmer and a filterroller.
just wanted to give phyto a go and tried a couple different species, only thing I observed was when I was dosing Rhodomonas salina I had to clean the glass less. but still, anecdotal at best so I don't want to claim anything

 

[Reefing_addiction]

I think it largely depends on your filtration capacity as well. for example, large skimmer or filterroller. Ive dosed phyto for a while with no discernable difference in either my corals or my nutrient concentrations

I run socks that’s it. And an overly packed sump with cheato and rocks

I sometimes even remove the socks for 12hours after dosing

 

[Reefing_addiction]

excactly, i have both a skimmer and a filterroller.
just wanted to give phyto a go and tried a couple different species, only thing I observed was when I was dosing Rhodomonas salina I had to clean the glass less. but still, anecdotal at best so I don't want to claim anything

So I use reef nutrient phyto. Stuff is thick. Tank loves it, I live it, just don’t like what it does to my no3/po4

 

[SauceyReef]

So I use reef nutrient phyto. Stuff is thick. Tank loves it, I live it, just don’t like what it does to my no3/po4

Try switching over to benepets and doing a mix. Corals still love it, and it does not raise PO4 much or at all. A good combo to add with reefroids so you dont have to be feeding so much reefroids. Reefroids, Benepets, and Livephyto is an amazing combo because if you get the balance right it can run a super nutrient packed meal, but help keep nutrients balanced. It is hard to balance it though! haha

 

[SauceyReef]

excactly, i have both a skimmer and a filterroller.
just wanted to give phyto a go and tried a couple different species, only thing I observed was when I was dosing Rhodomonas salina I had to clean the glass less. but still, anecdotal at best so I don't want to claim anything

I would reccomend trying a mixed bottle if you can find one. The bottles I get from Reef Culture I think have 5-10 strains. I had to cut back the dosage by 1/3rd from the last bottle with 1-2 strains because it does such a good job!

 

[Hats_]

I would reccomend trying a mixed bottle if you can find one. The bottles I get from Reef Culture I think have 5-10 strains. I had to cut back the dosage by 1/3rd from the last bottle with 1-2 strains because it does such a good job!

i personally dont see the need to dose phyto, tank is doing great without and I like to keep it minimalistic. My tank is also designed to be self-running so I can go on holiday or away for a weekend. if I were to add more manual dosing stuff that would change

 

[sixty_reefer]

i personally dont see the need to dose phyto, tank is doing great without and I like to keep it minimalistic. My tank is also designed to be self-running so I can go on holiday or away for a weekend. if I were to add more manual dosing stuff that would change

Live Phytoplankton is usually best if dosed in a automated way. Keeps consistency imo