Parameters first week on tank upgrade 125G

[TanknTang]

Good evening reefers,

I completed my tank transfer from my two tanks (32biocube and 50gal) into a 125 gal long tank on the 17th.
I am not a pro at parameters yet, but want to get double checked on them so I can learn from my mistakes, and see if my understanding on what to do, for resolution is on point or not. And as always advice!

(Test kits may be inaccurate but this is just a guideline, I will take some water to my LFS to test soon)
(Refractometer recalibrated before testing)

Info;
Same day tank transfer, no cycle, used live rock from both tanks, used 70% new salt water (ran out of salt, low salinity in result), and had to use the 30% of old water from old tanks, which did not have water changed due to busy moving.

Parameters

• 9.1 dKH (HC)
• 130ppb phosphorus ULR (HC)
• 0.4ppm phosphate HR (HC)
• 0 Nitrite N02- (API)
• 5.0ppm Nitrate N03- (API)
• 300-320ppm Calcium (API)
• 7.4pH HR (API)
• 0.25ppm Ammonia NH3/NH4+ (API)
• 1.019 Salinity
  
  (Fish appear fine, eating and swimming normal. Corals grew 3+ new polyps first few days, and now trumpets are telling me something is wrong with the water as they are cringed slightly)

My thoughts:
Low pH- Low salinity
Low Calcium- Low Salinity
High ammonia- Water change 25% or advice (read API always reads that?)
High Phosphate- feed less or change filters?
N03- OK
N02-OK
Alk- OK
Salinity- Low

Do you guys think I am on the right track or what guidance is needed? Are these parameters bad or expected? Will a 25% suffice or should I do 50%? I did not change the filter media yet since day one if that matters, (but am doing maintenance as I test)

As always thank you for your advice reefers!

 

[Formulator]

Low pH- Low salinity

Yes pH is low, but salinity is not the answer. You probably need more air exchange with the water. Is your flow creating a good ripple at the surface? What size skimmer are you running (if at all)? Also, I doubt it is as low as 7.4. I suggest a different test kit. At 7.4 your sand, rock, and coral would be dissolving…

Low Calcium- Low Salinity

Just a tad low, and yes I think raising salinity will get you on track.

High ammonia- Water change 25% or advice (read API always reads that?)

I wouldn’t worry about that level.

High Phosphate- feed less or change filters?

Yes, slightly high. When you say change filters, what are you talking about? Feeding less will help, but you will likely need to use some form of export to reduce what you have already. Water changes are easiest, but your nitrate is on the low end so you need to be careful not to bottom those out completely. GFO in a reactor or media bag is a good option.

N03- OK
N02-OK
Alk- OK
Salinity- Low

Agree with all these. One option to raise salinity without water changes is to put a cup of salt in a plastic container with holes poked in it and submerge the container in your sump. The salt will dissolve slowly and raise your salinity.

 

[PopBot16]

Yes, API ammonia is known to read 0.25 when it's 0 ppm.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Did you add any new rock to the tank or is it all from your two older tanks?

Water chemistry is going to be a bit all over the place over the next few days. Raising salinity will be important for your corals for sure. I would encourage you not to raise it more than 2 points per day to reduce osmotic stress issues. There are lots of online calculators to do this. Preparing high salinity water and doing a 20% water change several times over the next few days will be the least stressful way to do this.

How are you measuring salinity by the way?

 

[Formulator]

Preparing high salinity water and doing a 20% water change several times over the next few days will be the least stressful way to do this.

Nothing wrong with this, but a plastic container with holes in it filled with a cup of salt and placed in the sump is also an even less stressful and more passive way to do it safely.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Nothing wrong with this, but a plastic container with holes in it filled with a cup of salt and placed in the sump is also an even less stressful and more passive way to do it safely.

For 125 gallons raising from 1.019 to 1.026 will take quite a bit of salt. By doing this there’s the possibility of localized precipitation as salt goes into solution which may be a problem. Also has the potential for some salts to create a hard shell and for it to take super long to go into solution. Just my two cents. Everyone will have different thoughts on how to do this efficiently.

 

[TanknTang]

Yes pH is low, but salinity is not the answer. You probably need more air exchange with the water. Is your flow creating a good ripple at the surface? What size skimmer are you running (if at all)? Also, I doubt it is as low as 7.4. I suggest a different test kit. At 7.4 your sand, rock, and coral would be dissolving…
I only have a orbit 4 running, and it does a slight ripple, plus a tidal 110 makes some ripples, but no bubbles from what I see from either- it runs different modes but I can try moving it further up near the surface? Or I do have a spare amazon power head I could probably direct that towards the surface too. to get more bubbles?. Good point on the pH. I do not have a protein skimmer yet.

Just a tad low, and yes I think raising salinity will get you on track.
Awesome glad I got that right at least

I wouldn’t worry about that level.
Okay no worries, that one made me question the kit

Yes, slightly high. When you say change filters, what are you talking about? Feeding less will help, but you will likely need to use some form of export to reduce what you have already. Water changes are easiest, but your nitrate is on the low end so you need to be careful not to bottom those out completely. GFO in a reactor or media bag is a good option.
I read a forum on r2r about phos being hard to remove as its attached to the rock work etc, and someone on the post recommended like a phos guard filter that might help? Okay cool, I can work towards a GFO, Im kinda out of money for awhile so for a media bag what should I run just like an assortment?

Agree with all these. One option to raise salinity without water changes is to put a cup of salt in a plastic container with holes poked in it and submerge the container in your sump. The salt will dissolve slowly and raise your salinity.
My only problem I forgot to mention is my setup is sumpless, is this method still do able ? or should I just do 20% changes? My batches I do in my brute 50 gal is usually at 1.026 in bucket before I do the change, should I increase that or lessen it?

 

[TanknTang]

Yes, API ammonia is known to read 0.25 when it's 0 ppm.

Yeah thats what I kept seeing when searching in this group so I will get it crossed checked by my lfs for sure

 

[TanknTang]

Did you add any new rock to the tank or is it all from your two older tanks?

Water chemistry is going to be a bit all over the place over the next few days. Raising salinity will be important for your corals for sure. I would encourage you not to raise it more than 2 points per day to reduce osmotic stress issues. There are lots of online calculators to do this. Preparing high salinity water and doing a 20% water change several times over the next few days will be the least stressful way to do this.

How are you measuring salinity by the way?

No to any new rock, all from my old tanks and they were kept wet during transport too. So this is probably stupid question but my brute 50 gal where I pre make my water, I usually have it at the correct 1.026 before water changes, (despite this time being in a rush), in this case for not causing stress would doing a water change 20% with 1.026 water be too much in a day? and all measured with a basic refractometer, I also recalibrated it with the tester fluid prior to make sure.

 

[TanknTang]

For 125 gallons raising from 1.019 to 1.026 will take quite a bit of salt. By doing this there’s the possibility of localized precipitation as salt goes into solution which may be a problem. Also has the potential for some salts to create a hard shell and for it to take super long to go into solution. Just my two cents. Everyone will have different thoughts on how to do this efficiently.

Good point

 

[Formulator]

You are in the big leagues now with a 120g. A single orbit is not going to cut it. To give you an idea, in my 120g mixed reef I have 2 gyres, an mp40, and 2 smaller jebao wavemakers for behind the rocks. For now, understanding the budget concerns, I would throw the amazon powerhead you have in there. Direct flow toward the surface so you get good strong movement at the surface. Hopefully that is enough, but without a sump your options are kind of limited. Maybe an external skimmer eventually.

Phosphate binds rocks, but it isn’t “stuck” there. As you remove it from the water, phosphate comes out of the rock to equilibrate with the water and you can continue to take it out of the water. Eventually the rock will run out of phosphate and you will be able to keep it at a low stable value. GFO is similar to phosguard. They are both solids that go into a media reactor or a mesh bag. Since you have a tidal HOB filter, you can just put some in a bag in there. GFO is cheaper than phosguard.

For the salinity, without a sump, water changes are your best bet. Make the salinity about 1.030 in your new saltwater and do 20% changes until you get the tank to 1.025-1.026.

 

[crazyfishmom]

No to any new rock, all from my old tanks and they were kept wet during transport too. So this is probably stupid question but my brute 50 gal where I pre make my water, I usually have it at the correct 1.026 before water changes, (despite this time being in a rush), in this case for not causing stress would doing a water change 20% with 1.026 water be too much in a day? and all measured with a basic refractometer, I also recalibrated it with the tester fluid prior to make sure.

This won’t be too much. It may actually be too little to raise it a significant amount. You typically want to shoot for a 20% change with 1.030 or 1.032 to get you two points up with every subsequent water change.

 

[Formulator]

For 125 gallons raising from 1.019 to 1.026 will take quite a bit of salt. By doing this there’s the possibility of localized precipitation as salt goes into solution which may be a problem. Also has the potential for some salts to create a hard shell and for it to take super long to go into solution. Just my two cents. Everyone will have different thoughts on how to do this efficiently.

I did the math and you are right - not practical for raising that much. I came up with close to 18 cups of salt . In general for small adjustments though I’ve had success and didn’t have any issues with hardening or localized precipitation. With enough time, it all goes into solution.

 

[TanknTang]

You are in the big leagues now with a 120g. A single orbit is not going to cut it. To give you an idea, in my 120g mixed reef I have 2 gyres, an mp40, and 2 smaller jebao wavemakers for behind the rocks. For now, understanding the budget concerns, I would throw the amazon powerhead you have in there. Direct flow toward the surface so you get good strong movement at the surface. Hopefully that is enough, but without a sump your options are kind of limited. Maybe an external skimmer eventually.

Yes, I plan to add HOB add ons when I can, but dang okay I thought the orbit 4 on 100% would suffice, I will check out marketplace and find some more power heads then appreciate the tips. Good thing I posted!

Phosphate binds rocks, but it isn’t “stuck” there. As you remove it from the water, phosphate comes out of the rock to equilibrate with the water and you can continue to take it out of the water. Eventually the rock will run out of phosphate and you will be able to keep it at a low stable value. GFO is similar to phosguard. They are both solids that go into a media reactor or a mesh bag. Since you have a tidal HOB filter, you can just put some in a bag in there. GFO is cheaper than phosguard.

Okay you explained that better than what I was trying to comprehend, I understand now. My LFS has some GFO supplies I can try that! One step closer.

For the salinity, without a sump, water changes are your best bet. Make the salinity about 1.030 in your new saltwater and do 20% changes until you get the tank to 1.025-1.026.

Okay no worries, I will work on that thank you for all your help

 

[TanknTang]

This won’t be too much. It may actually be too little to raise it a significant amount. You typically want to shoot for a 20% change with 1.030 or 1.032 to get you two points up with every subsequent water change.

Alright cool, I can manage this! Thanks guys. Slowly but surely learning.

 

[crazyfishmom]

I did the math and you are right - not practical for raising that much. I came up with close to 18 cups of salt . In general for small adjustments though I’ve had success and didn’t have any issues with hardening or localized precipitation. With enough time, it all goes into solution.

For very small adjustments it shouldn’t be a big deal. This is a bit of a different bear between the large water volume and the big disparity in salinity. I did not go through the actual calculation myself so I appreciate that you did! I like the reef calculators that help with the step wise increases since I refuse to do any complex math outside of work

 

[TanknTang]

@Formulator Hey so I got the orbit 4 and then I put my amazon 4200gph double power head hitting the surface making lots of movement on the surface now.. in your opinion how many more power heads do I need ideally? I have two tangs and some clowns I just dont wanna give too much current if that will bother them if that makes sense. Can I get away with another orbit 4?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yeah thats what I kept seeing when searching in this group so I will get it crossed checked by my lfs for sure

Even if accurate, it is no concern at that level and I recommend not responding to it.

I'm presently writing an article titled "Ammonia is our Friend". Don't be misled by the constant drumbeat that any and all ammonia is bad.

 

[TanknTang]

Even if accurate, it is no concern at that level and I recommend not responding to it.

I'm presently writing an article titled "Ammonia is our Friend". Don't be misled by the constant drumbeat that any and all ammonia is bad.

Really?! Okay I will deff have to read about it. I was comparing all my stats to the BRS parameters and it had ammonia at 0 so I freaked out ! I will be following along