Parameter moniter business idea

[SVP]

@BeanAnimal
The difference between what he said and what you understood is the problem here. He was not asking for anyone's opinion on his business model he specifically stated he was trying to see if there was a market/demand for his idea. Which he stated just like the post or comment to show you are interested.

I am good with robotics and this would be fairly easy for me to develop but I need to know if there is a market.
:::
I want to build a cheap paramater sensor kit with an app which would be priced around 150-300 depending on price of materials. You can chose what sensors you would want from a list I will add later if there is enough people intrested. If you would be interested just like to post or comment.

Reality tends to get in the way of poorly planned business ventures.

The OP is a high school student tanking business classes with an assignment to come up with a business.

Shall we aid in his education and understanding with constructive and factual discussion so that he can one day soon build a business, or shall we encourage him to blindly shoot for the moon based on positive thinking and allow the him to learn from the fall?

You have no idea if his business model will fail but it's obvious what your opinion is on the topic. He may have connections that allow him to source inexpensive electronics etc. While your points can be applicable to a lot of situations it isn't a 100% applicable to all situations. As for shooting for the moon and failing. How do you think most of the electronic items we started with actually came into existence? Decades ago not everything was corporate structured and capital venture funded. It was young people using their imagination and building things on shoe string budgets and winging it, which oftentimes failed at first but was the first iteration of many. They were not worrying about taxes etc like a business does once it becomes established. You're putting the cart before the horse and trying to squash his ideas with corporate bs that's not immediately necessary.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I’ve read them, thanks for asking. Sounds like you’re projecting your own failures on a kid. Relax.

Personal attacks are wholly uncalled for. Contribute constructively or not at all.

 

[BeanAnimal]

@BeanAnimal
The difference between what he said and what you understood is the problem here. He was not asking for anyone's opinion on his business model he specifically stated he was trying to see if there was a market/demand for his idea.

Framed in the context of business classes and plenty of misconceptions about business. So, I ask again, shall we try to help or simply pat him on the back and say “go for it”?

And for the record he did ask for comments and did respond to them in the form of conversation. The only issue here is the white knighting.

You have no idea if his business model will fail but it's obvious what your opinion is on the topic. He may have connections that allow him to source inexpensive electronics etc.

Ow we are suspending disbelief to have a side argument. Why?

As for shooting for the moon and failing. How do you think most of the electronic items we started with actually came into existence?

That is a straw man that has zero relevance, and yet can at the same time can be applied to anything. Why teach a kid to swim when you can just shove him in the deep end, right?

 

[Malcontent]

How do you think most of the electronic items we started with actually came into existence?

Like the Theranos Edison?

 

[KrisReef]

Sorry I didn't see this, but I want to create a product that only makes what I deserve not ripping people off. Each sensor cost close to 20 dollars. The brain cost 40 and the wifi controller to connect to the app cost 30. It's not worth 1k it's worth 300 or so. I just want to make people happy and do what I love.

I quit reading at this reply, so if others have discussed this forgive my redundancy.

If you can make this tester for hundreds of people and still sell that at half the cost of the current market then you have a business.

The class you are taking isn't "I can make this cheaper," but how to make a product, employ people to make it and ship it (extra costs) and keep stores in stock with everything necessary to keep your buyers testing. The latter part of this is what business class is about. Making a mouse trap (sorry for a cliche older than both of us) and putting together an assembly line, paying the rent on the factory, and keeping customers happy. These are the costs you need to also plan for in business.

The other cost is the personal costs of dealing with know it all kooks like me and the agony that can bring to your day. YOu will need to make enough profit to at least buy a nice bottle of Scotch for your dad while you are building these in your garage. IF you give these away for free you will never get out of the garage.

End of business class discussion. Make me one or two, please. I'll sell the second one to pay for mine.

 

[revhtree]

Let’s please be civil and adhere to the TOS.

Thanks.

 

[jayden kolonne]

dang, this is alot of feedback. I agree we should keep it civil but I think non personal arguments are extremely helpful. I am very grateful for people who may buy this product, however, just as a warning this may take a month or longer due to building the app and testing differnt sensors to find the most accurate ones. But what I don't think people understand is that all I need to do once I figured out the best version it's a matter of plugging wires in, downloading the code onto the device and connecting it to the app. I also had an idea about selling this to my lfs as I had a few long talks with the owner and I think he could sell this at higher margins. He would probably like to see positive reviews so I'm going to try to make these as soon as possible and hopefully I can get some real reviews. Putting this together will likely take as much time as microwaving a burrito or something.

Also I want to ask a question, how many of you would appreciate it being tightly sealed internally to prevent water damage or have it easy to open if parts need to be replaced or added. All this feedback is very helpful. I will build the first prototype on labor day.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Just to toss my two cents in on the matter - I started a very small business a few years back, and like 14 foot reef and BeanAnimal have said, there are always hidden expenses that you don't think of until you start trying to make it work.

For me, the biggest issues I ran into were time to make each product (and finding a partner to manufacture them for me, because I just wasn't fast enough building by hand alone to make it a viable business), and shipping of large boxes (small boxes were within an acceptable price range, but big boxes with proper packaging would have basically doubled the cost of the products due to shipping).

Anyway, I think it's a great idea to build the prototype and get an idea of actual cost, time it takes to build it, etc., but it may or may not prove to be a viable business idea.


I'd say the main things to keep in mind at this point are:

-Cost (including materials, packaging, shipping, replacements within warranty, advertising, opportunity cost, etc.)

-Time (including time to build the product, pack them, ship them, deal with customer service, get all the paperwork in order, file taxes on income, etc.)

-Your hourly wage (if you spend two hours working to earn 1 sale, you might be fine; if you spend ten hours working to earn 1 sale, you probably won't - you want to be earning enough with a business to pay the bills without having to work 100 hour weeks)


Also, just as a word of caution here as it relates to marketing/advertising - a lot of people may come across product advertisement; only a handful will interact with that advertisement (such as by clicking a link to view the product on the site); of those that interact, only a handful will actually buy the product. The size of the handful varies from field to field, I'm sure, but, basically, if you get 100 likes on a product ad, I wouldn't expect more than 2-3 product purchases for most products.

Similarly, if you get 100 product purchases, I wouldn't expect more than 2-3 ratings/reviews on the product (though again, I'm sure this varies by field/product).

Anyway, in this case, you may have an advantage with the audience reach of R2R and an already defined market you could undercut, but you'll need to see if you can earn enough fast enough (the hourly wage) to make it worth doing as a business (it's fine if it's a hobby you can stop at any time, but a business needs to make enough to make it worthwhile), and it'll take time to build up a good enough reputation to get more sales.


So, to wrap up here, I think this is worth a shot for you, but I think it may be good to try prototyping and looking into shipping fees before deciding a cost; in other words, I think it's a good idea, but you may want to temper your expectations a bit until you've given it a serious try.

Hope this helps, and good luck with the endeavor!

 

[BeanAnimal]

I would keep this conversation in context to your school assignment and developing your business plan for that project so that it (the thread) can remain open and you can gain valuable knowledge. Otherwise you will soon find that one of your costs is an advertising membership.

Most of us directly commenting understand your idea to use off the shelf parts and microcontroller kits, and that assembly and flashing the ROM is the easiest part. What we are trying to help you understand is all of the rest of the costs and time that actually go into running a business and why things cost what they do. As Kris said, that is much of the purpose of your business classes.

At this point we also understand that you have no overhead, as your parents are footing those costs. But, for the sake of the business plan those costs (many already mentioned) should be considered.

Business license and insurance are very important. At this point you may be able to get away without and treat this as a hobby, but the business plan still needs to consider those costs.

That leaves mostly your time, which is also free at this point. The business plan should account for it though. Part of the process of the plan is to ensure that it is all worth the trouble.

The other thing that should be in your plan and must be considered even if you are doing this as a garage hobby to make a few bucks, is the cost of servicing your warranty and how you are going to provide support and deal with returns, unhappy customers that want money back or those that find a way to force a chargeback from your payment provider. Those are real world things that are certain to happen.

So a real and proper business plan is the first step. Along with that, as mentioned above is the prototype. You need to be sure you can deliver what your plan calls for and do so at the time and cost you planned for.

An important note. Most people mean well and wish to be encouraging. However, many have no more experience designing a product or running a business than you do. Free advice (even mine) is typically worth what you paid for it. That is why you are taking classes and assigned a project to design a business.

Me? I owned a technology business for over 20 years and have 4+ decades of hobby electronics and microcontroller design and software development experience. I am not trying to discourage you, rather am trying to help you succeed.

Get your prototype built and get your business plan worked out.

Have fun!

 

[PharmrJohn]

I had an idea just talking about this with you guys - could you make it a DIY “kit” with all the parts to make your own controller/monitor? For people that might like to build electronics and play with arduino, but don’t have the knowledge to put it together from scratch. Kind of like they make “build your own drone” kits.

I thought I saw, months ago, a thread where someone was doing just this. Not for marketing, just to see if s/he could do it......

 

[PharmrJohn]

I would keep this conversation in context to your school assignment and developing your business plan for that project so that it (the thread) can remain open and you can gain valuable knowledge. Otherwise you will soon find that one of your costs is an advertising membership.

Most of us directly commenting understand your idea to use off the shelf parts and microcontroller kits, and that assembly and flashing the ROM is the easiest part. What we are trying to help you understand is all of the rest of the costs and time that actually go into running a business and why things cost what they do. As Kris said, that is much of the purpose of your business classes.

At this point we also understand that you have no overhead, as your parents are footing those costs. But, for the sake of the business plan those costs (many already mentioned) should be considered.

Business license and insurance are very important. At this point you may be able to get away without and treat this as a hobby, but the business plan still needs to consider those costs.

That leaves mostly your time, which is also free at this point. The business plan should account for it though. Part of the process of the plan is to ensure that it is all worth the trouble.

The other thing that should be in your plan and must be considered even if you are doing this as a garage hobby to make a few bucks, is the cost of servicing your warranty and how you are going to provide support and deal with returns, unhappy customers that want money back or those that find a way to force a chargeback from your payment provider. Those are real world things that are certain to happen.

So a real and proper business plan is the first step. Along with that, as mentioned above is the prototype. You need to be sure you can deliver what your plan calls for and do so at the time and cost you planned for.

An important note. Most people mean well and wish to be encouraging. However, many have no more experience designing a product or running a business than you do. Free advice (even mine) is typically worth what you paid for it. That is why you are taking classes and assigned a project to design a business.

Me? I owned a technology business for over 20 years and have 4+ decades of hobby electronics and microcontroller design and software development experience. I am not trying to discourage you, rather am trying to help you succeed.

Get your prototype built and get your business plan worked out.

Have fun!

Good point man.......

 

[vahegan]

Sorry I didn't see this, but I want to create a product that only makes what I deserve not ripping people off. Each sensor cost close to 20 dollars. The brain cost 40 and the wifi controller to connect to the app cost 30. It's not worth 1k it's worth 300 or so. I just want to make people happy and do what I love.

These $20 sensors are crap, avoid them at all cost if you don't want to be in the "Cheap Chinese" category. A good pH sensor from Cole Parmer cost would something in the $80-150 range. The $10-20 pH sensor will maybe work for a week, then it will likely fail to calibrate and start showing temperature on the mood. If you want to gain customer trust, you need to use proper sensors that will last at least 1-3 years, and they are expensive. Same applies to the marine range TDS sensor - they cost $100-up.
To condition the signals from the sensors you need an amplifier circuit. for pH sensor, for example, you need an op-amp with input current in the few picoampere range - they are hard to get (post-covid lead times were around one year - this may have improved now) and not cheap. You also need optical isolation for all sensor circuits - this will also add significantly to the cost.
The ADC in Arduino is only 10bit, so if you want to have decent accuracy, you will have to add an external ADC circuit.

I had an idea just talking about this with you guys - could you make it a DIY “kit” with all the parts to make your own controller/monitor? For people that might like to build electronics and play with arduino, but don’t have the knowledge to put it together from scratch. Kind of like they make “build your own drone” kits.

There is the ReefPi project (I am afraid its pretty much dead by now - such open source projects tend to die if the main developer loses interest and by that time there was not a huge team of other supporters) here on r2r, and there were a few people in the community who were offering just that: pre-built circuit boards for the sensors, power socket control boards, 3D-printed cases, full DIY kits and even assembled systems - you choose it. The cost was in the range of a few hundred dollars, depending what you want: you could start low and grow later.

 

[VintageReefer]

i don’t feel you have researched this enough.

Build a prototype. If it will only cost you 100-150, then go order the parts and build one. Easy

The reality is you couldn’t do alk alone for under 300$. You need a reagent distribution system in place. A sensor to analyze spectrum. Pumps to extract a precise amount of water. Dosing pumps to administer the reagent. Pumps to expel the completed test.

i had more typed but it’s not with it

Would the demand be there? Yes
Is it possible at your projected cost? No
Would it be a quality product? No. You are literally looking for the lowest end junk to make it as cheap as possible

This is why nobody is making Ferraris out of their garage for $20,000

 

[BeanAnimal]

This is why nobody is making Ferraris out of their garage for $20,000

Well not nobody....

 

[Rollnwthdatide]

dang, this is alot of feedback. I agree we should keep it civil but I think non personal arguments are extremely helpful. I am very grateful for people who may buy this product, however, just as a warning this may take a month or longer due to building the app and testing differnt sensors to find the most accurate ones. But what I don't think people understand is that all I need to do once I figured out the best version it's a matter of plugging wires in, downloading the code onto the device and connecting it to the app. I also had an idea about selling this to my lfs as I had a few long talks with the owner and I think he could sell this at higher margins. He would probably like to see positive reviews so I'm going to try to make these as soon as possible and hopefully I can get some real reviews. Putting this together will likely take as much time as microwaving a burrito or something.

Also I want to ask a question, how many of you would appreciate it being tightly sealed internally to prevent water damage or have it easy to open if parts need to be replaced or added. All this feedback is very helpful. I will build the first prototype on labor day.

Products usually go through years of development and refinement. I wouldn't go assuming you can get this done in a month or two. You've got to do a lot of testing on your product before you can sell it to people and risk their livestock and investment in their tanks.

 

[knockout]

I was very excited about the Maven, and then $1200 made me run for the hills.

I am not sure you can come up with a price point before you have the engineering and R&D complete, I 100% agree that we are scammed daily by these overpriced gadgets that often have a short life expectancy, but anything you're selling requires extensive developing time, internal testing, beta testing, lots of money and resources. Most of the final selling price of a device is to recoup R&D and eventually turn a profit. You may choose to raise $ with a fund me round and it could be done as a not-for-profit "side" project to start what could become a new gadget designer/builder enterprise.

 

[knockout]

I wouldn’t get your hopes up and I don’t think that is an accurate way to measure demand. By the end of the day this will probably slip down the list and not get as much traffic.

I don’t think you need to worry about demand. Controllers and auto-testers are HOT, and I think cost is the biggest barrier for most that would like one and don’t have one already. So if you can make a quality product and even undercut the price of the big ones by 20-30%, I think you could make a killing.

There is one other factor here, say you do this, awesome, we are all happy, you're going against a market behemoths that will not be happy about this, and they'll let you do the grunt work, then buy you out and yes everybody sells, AI sold to EcoTech, then EcoTech was sold, BRS sold, now, this is not a bad strategy, I worked with Capital investors thru my IT career, they simply buy or develop business that will be a sore on giant companies and sell to them when the time is right. you can do that here.

 

[Solo McReefer]

The people who will buy a $300 tester

Will buy a $1000 tester, minus 5%

This is a luxury hobby. No one really needs to have corals in their living room

Hanna already makes a $300 Master Reef tester. And I see no mention of it on any reef forum

There used to be a company that had a master tester, using a disk of some kind, that was supposed to be at that price point.

Vaporware, unless it got turned into that LFS tester device for $1400, which I suspect. That uses a one time use $15 tester disk

Anyone remember the name of that company or device?

 

[Jamie814]

So let me go down the list,

I run a successful business in this market, you have so many misunderstandings on how running a business works, I'm sorry but you need to do more research......

 

[Jamie814]

All the sensors I have avaliable as of now are digital and not chemical which means no reactant.

Are you saying that you have some way to monitor alk, ca, mag, p04 and nitrate without the need for reagents??? This would be a breakthrough and I'd definitely be interested.