Palytoxin chemistry

[Thales]

Oh wow cool. Hi!

Well, I'm no expert but bacterial infections can cause "flu-like" symptoms. Cyanobacteria often release toxins, and some dinoflagellates as well like ostreopsis and karenia brevis.

Also just regular human illness like the flu, coronavirus, or the common cold. There was a post on this forum from a guy who was convinced he had palytoxin poisoning, until he saw a doctor and tested positive for covid-19.

Hi!

joes evidence not outs. No cyano or Dino’s of note in joes tank. No sickness in Joe. Months, iirc more that 6 months, of reliably getting ill after diving (of course business as usual changed). Tons of paly on the tank over time. Joe is highly experienced and there are tons of vet and aquarium staff that he consulted with. What compelling evidence are you seeing that the effects he was seeing was something other than paly effects? Thanks!

Edit: I may have confused your name and I apologize. Hosts on Reef beef are Rich and Ben, right? If you don't mind me asking, which are you?

No worries. I’m Rich. Great to meet you!

 

[fryman]

Hi!

joes evidence not outs. No cyano or Dino’s of note in joes tank. No sickness in Joe. Months, iirc more that 6 months, of reliably getting ill after diving (of course business as usual changed). Tons of paly on the tank over time. Joe is highly experienced and there are tons of vet and aquarium staff that he consulted with. What compelling evidence are you seeing that the effects he was seeing was something other than paly effects? Thanks!


No worries. I’m Rich. Great to meet you!

Hi Rich, I'm Sean. Very nice to meet you! I do like your show.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it was definately not palytoxin. I'm skeptical because I think in the hobby people often jump to that conclusion. The symptoms of palytoxin exposure are varied and non-specific. So for any reports of illness or injury, if palythoa/zoanthods are present we often "blame" them. It is a plausible explanation in this case, especially if Joe eliminated other potential causes. But it's difficult to eliminate all possibilities via testing since there are many toxic organisms. I think we will never know for sure.

Joe is in a unique situation since he is actually diving in the tank. I don't dive anymore and never have done so in an aquarium. It's difficult to avoid getting any saltwater in your eyes, nose & mouth when diving.

I believe it is important for people to be aware of palytoxin and the risks, so they can mitigate them. If you handle palys (especially if you frag them), wear a face shield and gloves. Also do not boil or dissolve them because aerosolized palytoxin is possible and very dangerous. But it is not absorbed through skin and so seems pretty easy to reduce the risk to an acceptable level. Palys are not likely to dart from the rockwork and stab you with a venomous spine, for example.

Risk in this hobby is not limited to palythoa. I think there are bigger ones that people don't seem to worry about, such as pathogenic microorganisms. The biggest risk we face in the hobby (other than perhaps driving to our local LFS) is probably electric shock. But people seem to shrug those off and focus on fringe elements of risk management in the hobby.

If we undersand the risks we can mitigate them. I don't see why people think this particular one is so great or difficult to manage. It doesn't seem that way to me.