NP bacto balance - nitrates at 0.0

[Hans-Werner]

I agree corals probably do not need nitrate. I use a nitrate test as an indicator of sufficient nitrogen in the tank as @Randy Holmes-Farley described above.

I understand that you say it’s unlikely to bottom out N using bacto balance, but since nitrate is my indicator for this I am unsure what to do. I don’t test for any other nitrogen.

Regarding unhappy corals. I agree, low phosphorus cause lack polyp extension almost immediately. My observation is zero nitrate (indicating insufficient nitrogen available) results in pale unhappy corals, but it takes a little longer.

If it is a lack of nitrogen that indeed may result in pale corals you can either feed more, reduce the dosage of NP-Bacto-Balance or dose Plus-NP.

NP-Bacto-Balance reduces the likeliness of any nutrient limitation. Nevertheless it works toward low nutrient concentrations. So if the nutrient flow from fish livestock in the tank is really low Plus-NP is the right choice.

 

[rishma]

If it is a lack of nitrogen that indeed may result in pale corals you can either feed more, reduce the dosage of NP-Bacto-Balance or dose Plus-NP.

NP-Bacto-Balance reduces the likeliness of any nutrient limitation. Nevertheless it works toward low nutrient concentrations. So if the nutrient flow from fish livestock in the tank is really low Plus-NP is the right choice.

I really appreciate the reply. I think the approach you describe cannot work in my circumstance, but I think it can work for many people.

For regular periods of over 1 month I do not have the ability to look at my corals and judge their health, paleness, etc. I am away from the tank and my daughter helps care for it. She can tell me in general if the corals are open or closed, but I cannot rely on her to judge the coral health based on the subtleties of appearance (I think many experienced reefers probably cannot do that).

I can ask her for general observation and quantitative tests. That’s why I use nitrate and phosphate test data to manage the tank.

I do appreciate the clarification that reducing nitrate to 0.0 can be expected with NP Bacto Balance. That confirms I am not doing anything incorrectly with the product.

 

[14A]

Copy that. I read @Randy Holmes-Farley threads about dosing ammonia and will switch to that if needed after my neonitro is gone. I did find that the Bacto Balance has been effective for me at keeping stable phosphate and the tank has been more stable and corals healthier than when I used NOPOx and vodka, vinegar, etc. It might be just marketing, but it’s very cheap for my small volume and my current bottle with last 2 years at my current dose.

It would be interesting to understand why some have issues when dosing nitrates and others don't. I didn't have any success dosing nitrates, but ammonia dosing did work for me. I'd say it's worth a try.

 

[rishma]

It would be interesting to understand why some have issues when dosing nitrates and others don't. I didn't have any success dosing nitrates, but ammonia dosing did work for me. I'd say it's worth a try.

I ordered some food grade ammonium bicarbonate. Should be here today. The challenge will be to get everything in balance (food+carbon+ammonium - skimming, etc…not to mention Kalk, etc). My goal is always to get things as close to autopilot with dosing pumps and auto feeder before I leave. Then my daughter just cleans skimmer and does a couple tests for me once a week. Adding another nutrient dose make the balancing act tougher. We shall see….

 

[Hans-Werner]

I ordered some food grade ammonium bicarbonate. Should be here today. The challenge will be to get everything in balance (food+carbon+ammonium - skimming, etc…not to mention Kalk, etc). My goal is always to get things as close to autopilot with dosing pumps and auto feeder before I leave. Then my daughter just cleans skimmer and does a couple tests for me once a week. Adding another nutrient dose make the balancing act tougher. We shall see….

This creates a bit a paradoxical situation: If you are dosing ammonium you also will not see an increase in nitrate until you dose a surplus that is oxidized to nitrate by archaea and bacteria after these have grown to the densitiy where they effectively process ammonium and nitrite. Most likely your corals will get quite dark with this kind of nutrient supply. So why not just watch the color of the corals and adjust it with ammonium (or no additional N dosage at all) to the point where you want to have them?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This creates a bit a paradoxical situation: If you are dosing ammonium you also will not see an increase in nitrate until you dose a surplus that is oxidized to nitrate by archaea and bacteria after these have grown to the densitiy where they effectively process ammonium and nitrite. Most likely your corals will get quite dark with this kind of nutrient supply. So why not just watch the color of the corals and adjust it with ammonium (or no additional N dosage at all) to the point where you want to have them?

I have advised folks dosing ammonium to get to the point where nitrate begins to become detectable, and I've not seen any report any sort of negative color effects.

For example:

For a month I've been dosing 10 ml twice a day to a 90 gallon system. All SPS are looking great with growth color and PE. Had a couple spots of cyano which are disappearing. Nitrates are reading consistently less than five and sometimes zero on a red sea test. If I go with the philosophy of observe the tank not the numbers everything looks great. This system has been chronically low in nitrate. I am dosing acropower but since starting the ammonia have stopped dosing nitrate. All very interesting.

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

I do not know either but I do think that the accepted hypothesis is that uptake happens at the light period. The photosynthesis transform inorganic carbon into glucose, inorganic P into ATP and inorganic N into amino acids - altogether in the chloroplast Sincerely Lasse I think I have to...

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Update: after dosing 30ml/day broken up into 3 doses (morning, afternoon, and night) of ammonia chloride in a 220 total volume system my nitrates went from .3 to 2 (Hannah nitrate HR). What did surprise me was that my phosphates rose from .11 to .21 (Hannah Phosphate ULR). Nothing changed in the last 2 days so I’m not sure why it doubled. I just used my last packet of reagent and ordered more to arrive Sunday when I’ll test again. I haven’t noticed much difference so far except in my acan colony, it appears to have more colors coming out now.

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

@Randy Holmes-Farley , When dosing ammonia, should I test for ammonia? for nitrate? or both? My nitrate level is very low, while my phospate level is OK. So, rather than dosing vinegar or vodka, I think I will dose ammonia using your formula. I haven't tested for ammonia in years, but...

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It's a few days short of a month since I started continually dosing Randy's recipe into the system. I started at 60ml, and I'm up to 90ml. I've held at this number since I've been able to keep my nitrates steady at 10 for the last two weeks.

As a note, I am also feeding other sources of food that hasn't changed. Every couple/few days I will direct feed the nems, duncans, euphllia, etc with a mix of Avast's reef jerky and freeze dried mysis. This is only about a 1/2 teaspoon at a time mixed with tank water. I will also feed some aminos once or twice a week at half the mfr's reccomended dosage. Currently I have Restore on hand for this. Previously it was AB+.

All of the corals have gained color and the euphyllia have a glowing sheen to them. They are all opening well, and a couple have started adding additional colors. One in particular, a purple octospawn with pink tips is turning green (tips still pink). I'm really stoked on this new method and will continue to use it. I expect to up my dosage as the corals grow and I add more.

Thanks for the great idea Randy, and the effort you and everyone else has put into the discussion about it.

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Ive been dosing Ammonium bicarbonate but a few of my sps have melted like an alk tip-burn and some bleached. How much impact does the ammonium bicarbonate have on pH/Alk? I don't have a pH probe, that's my next purchase, but based on observations of the sps I'm assuming this is what's happening...

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Just checking in with an update. Things are still going well and I haven’t needed to increase my dose yet from 0.1ppm/day.

Nitrate has reached 10ppm and is settling there. I’m getting good polyp extension and colour in my SPS.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-for-low-nitrate-systems.987087/post-12739895

 

[rishma]

This creates a bit a paradoxical situation: If you are dosing ammonium you also will not see an increase in nitrate until you dose a surplus that is oxidized to nitrate by archaea and bacteria after these have grown to the densitiy where they effectively process ammonium and nitrite. Most likely your corals will get quite dark with this kind of nutrient supply. So why not just watch the color of the corals and adjust it with ammonium (or no additional N dosage at all) to the point where you want to have them?

I am unable to “watch the color of the coral” for a month at a time.