NP bacto balance - nitrates at 0.0

[rishma]

I searched but didn’t find my answer.

TM NP Bacto Balance has worked well for me maintaining stable phosphate around 0.1. It’s been great for my small 100L tank because GFO always caused problems for this small water volume. I travel for work and stability without intervention is key.

That said, nitrates routinely drop to undetectable. I boost them back up using neo nitro.

my feeding is very consistent using an auto feeder.

I have seen others have this issue. Wondering if there is a solution other than dosing N or if I just ignore it and leave N at zero.

 

[Subsea]

What’s wrong with dosing nitrogen? I dose ammonia with liquid kelp concentrate.

 

[crazyfishmom]

I searched but didn’t find my answer.

TM NP Bacto Balance has worked well for me maintaining stable phosphate around 0.1. It’s been great for my small 100L tank because GFO always caused problems for this small water volume. I travel for work and stability without intervention is key.

That said, nitrates routinely drop to undetectable. I boost them back up using neo nitro.

my feeding is very consistent using an auto feeder.

I have seen others have this issue. Wondering if there is a solution other than dosing N or if I just ignore it and leave N at zero.

Plus NP is what I would recommend in that instance. Offers the benefit of basto balance but adds a bit of nitrogen and phosphate to stop bottoming out from happening.

 

[rishma]

Plus NP is what I would recommend in that instance. Offers the benefit of basto balance but adds a bit of nitrogen and phosphate to stop bottoming out from happening.

I don’t think I want to use plus NP. I use that when P drops, or both N and P. In this case, P is good and I don’t want to add any

 

[rishma]

What’s wrong with dosing nitrogen? I dose ammonia with liquid kelp concentrate.

Wrong with it? Nothing at all. And if I have to keep dosing I’ll figure it out. But since Bacto Balance is supposed to help me maintain stable nutrients I was hoping to accomplish that without dialing in another supplement.

 

[rtparty]

No matter the marketing, I’ve never found a carbon dosing system that doesn’t bottom out nitrates eventually.

Dosing ammonia is a super easy and cheap way to add nitrogen to the tank.

 

[Subsea]

Wrong with it? Nothing at all. And if I have to keep dosing I’ll figure it out. But since Bacto Balance is supposed to help me maintain stable nutrients I was hoping to accomplish that without dialing in another supplement.

Zero nitrates is not ideal.

 

[rishma]

No matter the marketing, I’ve never found a carbon dosing system that doesn’t bottom out nitrates eventually.

Dosing ammonia is a super easy and cheap way to add nitrogen to the tank.

Copy that. I read @Randy Holmes-Farley threads about dosing ammonia and will switch to that if needed after my neonitro is gone. I did find that the Bacto Balance has been effective for me at keeping stable phosphate and the tank has been more stable and corals healthier than when I used NOPOx and vodka, vinegar, etc. It might be just marketing, but it’s very cheap for my small volume and my current bottle with last 2 years at my current dose.

 

[rishma]

Zero nitrates is not ideal.

Agree in general, which is why I’ve been dosing. I’ve had problems with bottoming out nitrates using vodka/vinegar in the past, so I worry about it. The tank looked great and I check nitrates for the first time in 2 months and found them at zero. Surprised me based on the apparent health of the LPS. I wondered if others using bacto balance need to supplement nitrogen.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Agree in general, which is why I’ve been dosing. I’ve had problems with bottoming out nitrates using vodka/vinegar in the past, so I worry about it. The tank looked great and I check nitrates for the first time in 2 months and found them at zero. Surprised me based on the apparent health of the LPS. I wondered if others using bacto balance need to supplement nitrogen.

As far as I understand, while you may not be able to detect it because your tank is consuming it, there are nitrogenous compounds in bacto balance so bottomed out may not be as problematic due to the dosing. Would make me nervous too but sounds like all looks good thankfully. Maybe @Hans-Werner can chyme in.

 

[rishma]

As far as I understand, while you may not be able to detect it because your tank is consuming it, there are nitrogenous compounds in bacto balance so bottomed out may not be as problematic due to the dosing. Would make me nervous too but sounds like all looks good thankfully. Maybe @Hans-Werner can chyme in.

Exactly. Undetectable nitrate has always resulted in bad things for me the past. Seems unlikely I just caught it at zero. Was probably that way for a while. I would not have been so concerned even if it was only 1PPM because corals were happy.

 

[rtparty]

Copy that. I read @Randy Holmes-Farley threads about dosing ammonia and will switch to that if needed after my neonitro is gone. I did find that the Bacto Balance has been effective for me at keeping stable phosphate and the tank has been more stable and corals healthier than when I used NOPOx and vodka, vinegar, etc. It might be just marketing, but it’s very cheap for my small volume and my current bottle with last 2 years at my current dose.

I used Bacto Balance on my previous build and really enjoyed it. I’d use it again in a heartbeat.

Just stating my experience that it will bottom out nitrates even though they tout “balance”

 

[folsomreefing]

I’ve been keeping my nitrates undetectable for a couple of months now in my 5 month old nano. I dose 5ml of microbacter7 twice a week and run a chaeto reactor. I still get a few pinches of hair algae here and there every week or so.

I thought I was playing with fire but I found out WWC does the same thing.

 

[rishma]

I’ve been keeping my nitrates undetectable for a couple of months now in my 5 month old nano. I dose 5ml of microbacter7 twice a week and run a chaeto reactor. I still get a few pinches of hair algae here and there every week or so.

I thought I was playing with fire but I found out WWC does the same thing.

Interesting! Thanks for sharing. My fights with Dinos only came with zero P. I will not make that mistake again. In the past I had unhappy corals with zero nitrate but I know it’s far more complicated than that. N is just an indicator. I’d be more comfortable just going off appearance of corals but I am gone for a month at a time and my daughter keeps an eye on things.

 

[Hans-Werner]

ve had problems with bottoming out nitrates using vodka/vinegar in the past,

How did that look like?

NP-Bacto-Balance adds reduced nitrogen compounds (also a little nitrate) and organic carbon which means there is virtually no chance for nitrate to accumulate. Nevertheless there are reduced nitrogen compounds and bacterial biomass available.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

t. But since Bacto Balance is supposed to help me maintain stable nutrients I was hoping to accomplish that without dialing in another supplement.

The problem with zero nitrate is that one cannot readily know if there is sufficient N for the tank organisms or not. The only way to know is to observe the organisms, and that is not trivial for many aquarists.

Sources such as ammonia, organics, particulates and whole organisms such as plankton may be adequate in some tanks, as they usually are in the ocean.

But in some tanks they clearly are not enough, and having a few ppm nitrate ensures that there is sufficient N available. Thus, it can be a good practice to maintain a few ppm nitrate even if it is not the main N source available.

 

[rishma]

How did that look like?

NP-Bacto-Balance adds reduced nitrogen compounds (also a little nitrate) and organic carbon which means there is virtually no chance for nitrate to accumulate. Nevertheless there are reduced nitrogen compounds and bacterial biomass available.

My past experience has been unhappy coral when carbon dosing drove nitrate to zero.

It seems many people find NP Bacto Balance results in 0.0 nitrate. I was worried when I found my nitrates at zero though my corals looked happy.

Are you suggesting that 0.0 ppm nitrate is not something to worry about when using NP bacto balance? Thank you.

 

[Hans-Werner]

My past experience has been unhappy coral when carbon dosing drove nitrate to zero.

It seems many people find NP Bacto Balance results in 0.0 nitrate. I was worried when I found my nitrates at zero though my corals looked happy.

Are you suggesting that 0.0 ppm nitrate is not something to worry about when using NP bacto balance? Thank you.

No, I don't think corals need nitrate.

I would think something else unnoticed made the the corals unhappy. I think either phosphate concentration got too low or maybe ammonium was zeroed out also.

Since NP-Bacto-Balance provides nitrogen compounds and phosphate, together with the nutrients from fish in the aquarium it is unlikely P or N get bottomed out although the nitrate concentration might be. It is just because nitrate is the most oxidized form or nitrogen and it is not replaced by NP-Bacto-Balance in sufficient concentrations.

Most visible in corals showing little polyp extension is low phosphate concentrations in my experience.

 

[rishma]

The problem with zero nitrate is that one cannot readily know if there is sufficient N for the tank organisms or not. The only way to know is to observe the organisms, and that is not trivial for many aquarists.

Sources such as ammonia, organics, particulates and whole organisms such as plankton may be adequate in some tanks, as they usually are in the ocean.

But in some tanks they clearly are not enough, and having a few ppm nitrate ensures that there is sufficient N available. Thus, it can be a good practice to maintain a few ppm nitrate even if it is not the main N source available.

Thank you. That makes sense to me and is what I am working on. I set up a dosing pump to add nitrate.

I’ve dosed some N and got it to 4PPM but it seems to have driven my phosphorus lower, near undetectable. So I’ve created a new problem, and a potentially much bigger problem.

I‘ve stopped carbon dosing for the moment trying to get things stable again.

 

[rishma]

No, I don't think corals need nitrate.

I would think something else unnoticed made the the corals unhappy. I think either phosphate concentration got too low or maybe ammonium was zeroed out also.

Since NP-Bacto-Balance provides nitrogen compounds and phosphate, together with the nutrients from fish in the aquarium it is unlikely P or N get bottomed out although the nitrate concentration might be. It is just because nitrate is the most oxidized form or nitrogen and it is not replaced by NP-Bacto-Balance in sufficient concentrations.

Most visible in corals showing little polyp extension is low phosphate concentrations in my experience.

I agree corals probably do not need nitrate. I use a nitrate test as an indicator of sufficient nitrogen in the tank as @Randy Holmes-Farley described above.

I understand that you say it’s unlikely to bottom out N using bacto balance, but since nitrate is my indicator for this I am unsure what to do. I don’t test for any other nitrogen.

Regarding unhappy corals. I agree, low phosphorus cause lack polyp extension almost immediately. My observation is zero nitrate (indicating insufficient nitrogen available) results in pale unhappy corals, but it takes a little longer.