nitrification happens in filter media OR rock/sand/glass biofilm

[reef_1]

I now had multiple attempts kickstarting a tank with media from another tanks sump and it always failed.

This time I took around 2 handful of matrix and fluval bioballs from my nanos sump - around half of total filter media, like 200ml lets say. They've been residing there for 1 year - I cycled this nano tank with these media bags being in the sump.

So I added the media in an oversized hob filter and then into a 5g hospital tank with two tiny fish, but while ammonia is constantly generated at a slow pace (~0.1ppm per day with daily one feeding and thorough cleaning), I get zero nitrites and nitrates with both salifert and API tests as well (I do not have a problem managing the ammonia, don't anwser that).

I've been really careful this time, media have been out of water for only 30 seconds until I loaded up my hang on filter, then went straight back into the hospital tank already at right ph, temperature, salinity, dechlorinated ofc, together with 2 small fish 10 minutes later who are happy in the water for many days now, so water is good imo. I am having CP in the tank at 15mg/l.

This has happened to me every time I wanted to kickstart a tank with media from another tank and in the end I always needed to manage ammonia and apply starter bacteria if I wanted meaningful biological filtration.

I always thought most nitrification is happening in the media in the sump, but now that I added the "oldest and best" filter media from my nano tank into the much smaller hospital tank and nothing happens I am questioning if this is true.

The only explanation what I found is eiter:
1) I accidentally killed my nitrifying bacteria on my media (but how?)
2) Filter media never had a LOT of nitrifying bacteria in my nano and nitrification mostly happened at somewhere else, rocks, sand, biofilm on glass etc. It of course still has some bacteria and it will spread around eventually in the tank, but the current amount is not enough to handle the load.

Anyone has any relevant experience.

 

[Malcontent]

Well, per the Marinepure study as well as an experiment done by a freshwater hobbyist, it takes very little surface area to support the amount of fish stocked. That means most of the surface area in a tank is unused and transferring over a random 5-10% of it in the form of filter media isn't necessarily going to cycle a new tank.

Everyone also assumes the filter media is the preferred habitat of the bacteria.

 

[MnFish1]

As @malcontect mentioned, and contrary to much conventional wisdom, IMHO nitrifies do not cover 'every surface' available for filtration - they cover as much area as food is available to maintain them. I think your point 2 is the correct one. There are a couple relevant experiments in the 'R2R Experiment section'. (the section you're in) - just go towards the top.

 

[reef_1]

Thanks for pointing me to the studies on r2r and the marinpure study. I just read the latter, it is very very interesting.

The most interesting part is that even the empty filter with an empty tank was able to process ~30ppm ammonia per day, while the top marinpure stuff was only around ~100ppm per day.

All other filter media were vaguely in the empty filters range with values max around ~45ppm etc. As most people doesnt run marinpure anyway it seems they could use nothing as well lol, maybe the buildup of bacteria would be a bit slower in case of an ammonia spike than with marinpure, but then what.

Also the test was done with an empty tank and a canister filter forcing water through the media - I guess highly benefitting bacteria buildup in the fiter media - while in a reef tank we got a lot more surface in the DT, sand, rocks and lot of flow around these as well, I guess much more flow than around a bag of matrix thrown in the sump.

I will read these other experiments asap, but I already made up my mind, I will skip biomedia in my new nano and don't think I will ever look back as it doesnt seem to work how I thought it does.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for pointing me to the studies on r2r and the marinpure study. I just read the latter, it is very very interesting.

The most interesting part is that even the empty filter with an empty tank was able to process ~30ppm ammonia per day, while the top marinpure stuff was only around ~100ppm per day.

All other filter media were vaguely in the empty filters range with values max around ~45ppm etc. As most people doesnt run marinpure anyway it seems they could use nothing as well lol, maybe the buildup of bacteria would be a bit slower in case of an ammonia spike than with marinpure, but then what.

Also the test was done with an empty tank and a canister filter forcing water through the media - I guess highly benefitting bacteria buildup in the fiter media - while in a reef tank we got a lot more surface in the DT, sand, rocks and lot of flow around these as well, I guess much more flow than around a bag of matrix thrown in the sump.

I will read these other experiments asap, but I already made up my mind, I will skip biomedia in my new nano and don't think I will ever look back as it doesnt seem to work how I thought it does.

I have skipped it in mine. That said - What is not known - is whether bacteria preferentially grow on rock - and that if there was no rock in the tank - lets say only bioballs or something like that - would they also work. My guess is 'yes' - mainly because of the experience with using 'sterile tanks' for quarantine (i.e. no rock, only fish and perhaps a sponge filter)

 

[reef_1]

Just found Dan_P's thread, it answers a lot! Great job.