Nitrates 100+ppm, Need help with Dosing Vodka

[Ashish Patel]

Bit of a setback. Stinks that it takes 2 weeks to see any negative effects but grow tips stopped on most corals over last 1-2 weeks. When i ramped up the ml/day It bottomed out my Phosphates and during this time i was slowly increasing my radion intensity. I checked my phosphates and they are now at 12ppb (last week at 50ppb, previous 3ppb). From my last post I did start LC again but at 25% of the dose prior to carbon dosing. Over the last 2 days I dropped carbon dosing to 30ml per day. I'll test phosphates again tomorrow and if they are close to 12ppb I'll leave the LC at current dose or else drop the dose further.

I am sure alot of the changes in the system impacts growth and I just need to find the sweet spots since I am a bit shocked vodka did a number on my Phosphates that I had no anticipate. Hope is it's doing just as good of a job reducing high nitrates.

i think testing every 3 days alk and phosphates is a must and a weekly testing seems to not catch these things.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I found out when i dose 25ML per day Vodka and 100ML of diluted LC (30ml/1gallon) at night that my Phosphates stay around 0.03ppm in the morning when i test. I know this is a good range but I feel its kind of on the lower side. I find as long as I am testing PO twice per week I can easily adjust this number up or down. I don't observe anything negative but it maybe to soon to tell but my gut tells me to keep it 0.05-.10 range

 

[Ashish Patel]

I tested NO3 yesterday by diluting 1:10 and it was 100ppm, which made it 1000pm. I was doing multiple NO3 test and may not have been as careful so retest today with 5ml of tank water and 45ml of RO water. I got a clean reading of 25ppm. So I can say I am at 225ppm NO3.

I've decided dosing too much vodka by hand just causes too much slime build up on my socks and pumps so I have held the dose at 25ml per day.

I have been feeding heavy but honestly I have no choice. My tangs are so fat and big they need a good amount of frozen food.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I've decided my system needs some massive water changes. So I am making enough water to do a 45-50% waterchange.

I also ordered a dosing pump and want to get this vodka on a 2ml per hour dosing regimant. Dosing 10-15 at once I feel is too much for my skimmer to handle and pink slime grows in my sump on a mesh bag I have rocks in. The slime grew too 8" so I removed those rocks and bags.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I just added vodka on a doser. Amazing I no longer have to worry about this task.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I just did a 50% Waterchange. Caused a massive bacteria bloom so added a UV. 130gallons removed from rank and another 90gallons from the sump

 

[Ashish Patel]

I tested my NO3 after the big water change and was hoping I'd be at 10ppm with 1:9 diluted sample.

Left is after waterchange. What do you all thing my levels are at with below reference point? Whatever number I just have times by 9

 

[Ashish Patel]

I removed alot of pink slime from my sump. Is this normal?

 

[fushi]

I removed alot of pink slime from my sump. Is this normal?

It happens, carbon dosing can spur bacteria growth of all types. One of the cons of going that route.

I saw this cheap sulphur reactor and thought it may be a good long tern solution for you. I have never used a sulphur reactor but have heard good things.
Sulphur reactor

I also remember hearing someone, I think Salem on the reef builders podcast, talk about dosing gallons of phyto in one of their service accounts tanks to reduce extreme amounts of nitrate that they just couldn’t get rid of with other methods. You may want to reach out to him for the details.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sulfur reactors work, but they introduce other issues, such as alkalinity depletion.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Sulfur reactors work, but they introduce other issues, such as alkalinity depletion.

Would running the discharge through a reactor filled with re-born media minimize the effect?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Would running the discharge through a reactor filled with re-born media minimize the effect?

That will shift the imbalance from depleting alk to adding calcium. Its still unbalanced.

 

[BZOFIQ]

That will shift the imbalance from depleting alk to adding calcium. Its still unbalanced.

You're right, from one issue to the next.

 

[Ashish Patel]

After the 50% water change I was hell bent on making sure the Nitrate reduction doesn't slow down so kept at 31ML/day vodka dosing. It caused a massive bacteria bloom that only stopped once I reduced carbon dosing to 10ML per day and added the UV. The cause of the bacteria bloom was my phosphates went to 0 on the Hanna ULR checker and the bacteria has no Phosphates to feed on. I fed a little heavy and after reducing to 10ML/day vodka the bacteria bloom cleared up. 1-2 days later the Phosphate are at 13PPB and I've gotten the vodka up to 25ML/day.

I also had a lot of flow going over my remote sand bed, which I think just defeats the purpose of a remote sand bed so now have less flow going over it and pretty soon once I put a divider in my sump for a frag system there will be less flow.

I am considering dosing Phosphates in my system. I dont see how I can ramp up dosing if my Phosphate are so low. I am already feeding pretty heavy and using this to drive up the PO will just help drive up the NO aswell.

Any thoughts on dosing Phosphates? I hate to purchase PO but may have no choice

 

[Coral.Reef]

Following closely! Have been dealing with out of whack nutrients myself..high nitrates and no phosphates…realized chemipure elite (GFO) was the culprit…swapped it out for blue 2 months ago… started a 1 ml vodka dose 3 days ago (30 gallon tank)…have a similar question on whether one can dose Loudwolf phosphate solution alongside vodka and mB7 to spur up good bacteria for nitrate reduction..

Also I have crocea clam that seems to not like the vodka after 3 days of dosing..thinking I might give the vodka a day break today to allow the little fellow to recover a bit.

@Randy Holmes-Farley @Miami Reef

 

[Miami Reef]

Following closely! Have been dealing with out of whack nutrients myself..high nitrates and no phosphates…realized chemipure elite (GFO) was the culprit…swapped it out for blue 2 months ago… started a 1 ml vodka dose 3 days ago (30 gallon tank)…have a similar question on whether one can dose Loudwolf phosphate solution alongside vodka and mB7 to spur up good bacteria for nitrate reduction..

Also I have crocea clam that seems to not like the vodka after 3 days of dosing..thinking I might give the vodka a day break today to allow the little fellow to recover a bit.

@Randy Holmes-Farley @Miami Reef

Give it a break for now and dose PO4.

If you want to try again, try using distilled white vinegar. Perhaps start with 5mL per day.

 

[Ashish Patel]

So last week I finally added lights and corals to my sump. Its essentially like adding a refugium with a lot of area for hair algae. Anyways, I am in shock with how well Vodka is working on Phosphates. It goes to zero very quickly so I can't dose more than 25ML/day. I can not believe I am considering buying Phosphates. I feel overfeeding to bring up Phosphates when I am trying to reduce NO3 is just counter productive.

I tested NO3 last week and diluted it by 1:1 and it was still in between 50-100 color so I am still way above 150PPM. Which is absolutely crazy. I like Seachem products because they are concentrated so may get Flourish PO.

I do feel adding the frag tank should help bring down the nutrients further but I feel my bio load is just too high right now and I dont have a clear sign my NO3 are actually dropping. Worst part is I heard Sanjays talking about Vodka dosing and how it took him 2 years to get it down. I don't have that kind of patient I need to get this down yesterday. I may put up my orange shoulder for sale or hippo, which will be crushing especially if I later regret it.

 

[Miami Reef]

I feel overfeeding to bring up Phosphates when I am trying to reduce NO3 is just counter productive.

True. I wouldn’t want to overfeed to bring PO4 if you are struggling with NO3. I would only dose PO4.

Dosing PO4 can help bring your NO3 by 2 fold:

1) It can allow bacteria to grow (if PO4 was limiting) to help export more NO3.

2) It can allow you to dose more vodka.

I wouldn’t rehome the 2 tangs. They aren’t causing the NO3. It’s just that you had really high levels from before without sufficient export.

so I am still way above 150PPM

Weren’t you above 200ppm before? Is it true that there was a reduction?

Are you open to adding an algae scrubber? They are very effective nitrate export. They can also increase the pH in your tank. It’s also very satisfying to harvest all that algae that grows. I found an extremely good quality scrubber that is inexpensive (compared to the clear water scrubbers).


Here’s what I would do:

Increase water changes
Dose more vodka (as long as the extra bacteria isn’t bothering anything).
Dose PO4
Optional: try adding a refugium or algae scrubber.

 

[Miami Reef]

Anyways, I am in shock with how well Vodka is working on Phosphates.

If vodka is working that well for PO4, then it should be EVEN MORE effective for NO3.

To reduce PO4 by 0.2ppm you need to reduce much more (say at least 0.4ppm PO4 total), since more PO4 will come out of the rocks.

You can’t reduce phosphate without also nitrate by using vodka. However, it is possible to reduce nitrate without phosphate with carbon dosing.

 

[Ashish Patel]

If vodka is working that well for PO4, then it should be EVEN MORE effective for NO3.

To reduce PO4 by 0.2ppm you need to reduce much more (say at least 0.4ppm PO4 total), since more PO4 will come out of the rocks.

You can’t reduce phosphate without also nitrate by using vodka. However, it is possible to reduce nitrate without phosphate with carbon dosing.

Can you elaborate more on this: To reduce PO4 by 0.2ppm you need to reduce much more (say at least 0.4ppm PO4 total), since more PO4 will come out of the rocks.

All I know is last year my Phosphates would climb super fast, so I know Vodka must be doing a number on it. I know in the future when my NO3 are lower and carbon dosing is reduced my Phosphates may start climbing and need to be controlled again with LC. Best case would be test monthly and dose additional LC until PO are reduced.

I have a feeling that adding this 80 gallon lit frag tank with white surfaces is high powered giant Refugium, and will consume alot of the excess nutrients produced in the aquarium. The other half of the sump is filled with 80lb sand and 80LB of live rock (With lower flow since adding a divider. Before i had a pump blowing water over the sand and I guess that probably won't help De-nitrification in the sand. I feel my entire sump now has become a nutrient consuming factory, previously it was probably working against me. I just would like to get a actual reading of NO3 so I know for sure I am dropping