Nitrates 100+ppm, Need help with Dosing Vodka

[Miami Reef]

Can you elaborate more on this: To reduce PO4 by 0.2ppm you need to reduce much more (say at least 0.4ppm PO4 total), since more PO4 will come out of the rocks.

Sure.

Phosphate is bound to rocks and sand in addition to being in the water column. The phosphate is in balance with the substrate and water column.

When you remove phosphate from the water (water changes, GFO, lanthanum etc) phosphate from the rocks release back into the water column.

Thus, in order to remove a specific amount (ppm) of PO4, you will need to actually remove much more PO4 to get to the desired outcome.

For example: doing a 50% water change will reduce nitrate by 50%.

Doing a 50% water change will not have much effect on PO4 since more will release from the rocks.

I think the rocks are soaking up the PO4. I don’t think it’s the carbon dosing. The rocks can bind and unbind depending on their saturation point and the concentration in the water.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Sure.

Phosphate is bound to rocks and sand in addition to being in the water column. The phosphate is in balance with the substrate and water column.

When you remove phosphate from the water (water changes, GFO, lanthanum etc) phosphate from the rocks release back into the water column.

Thus, in order to remove a specific amount (ppm) of PO4, you will need to actually remove much more PO4 to get to the desired outcome.

For example: doing a 50% water change will reduce nitrate by 50%.

Doing a 50% water change will not have much effect on PO4 since more will release from the rocks.

I think the rocks are soaking up the PO4. I don’t think it’s the carbon dosing. The rocks can bind and unbind depending on their saturation point and the concentration in the water.

Jeez. That's some confusing stuff.
So do you think I should dose PO? I mean it's either that or cap my Vodka dosing to 25ml per day

 

[Miami Reef]

Jeez. That's some confusing stuff.
So do you think I should dose PO? I mean it's either that or cap my Vodka dosing to 25ml per day

I don’t remember how low it was, but if it’s under 0.02 I think it would be beneficial to dose it. Especially if you feel like carbon dosing is dropping it further.

 

[jda]

In the example above, if you do a 50% water change, you remove 50% of the po4 from the water column. The rocks/sand will unbind back to equilibrium which will likely be just SLIGHTLY below where the water column was before. You did remove po4, but most of it was from the rocks and not the water column. If you keep doing this, you will eventually lower everything in the tank.

If you have 0.02 ppm of po4 and are feeding your fish well, then I would not dose anything. The 0.02 is a surplus and the rock and sand will buffer and make it really hard to get to true zero. What does 0.10 of po4 do that 0.02 does not do? I would also not try and lower from 0.10 to 0.02 if it were the other way around unless you have corals that are suffering.

How does the tank look? It has been a while since we asked. If it looks OK, I would just keep on keeping on.

 

[Miami Reef]

If you have 0.02 ppm of po4 and are feeding your fish well, then I would not dose anything. The 0.02 is a surplus and the rock and sand will buffer and make it really hard to get to true zero. What does 0.10 of po4 do that 0.02 does not do? I would also not try and lower from 0.10 to 0.02 if it were the other way around unless you have corals that are suffering.

If he wants to drop 100ppm+ NO3 with carbon dosing, his PO4 might become too low for his corals. Dosing some phosphate will prevent a P deficiency.

 

[Ashish Patel]

In the example above, if you do a 50% water change, you remove 50% of the po4 from the water column. The rocks/sand will unbind back to equilibrium which will likely be just SLIGHTLY below where the water column was before. You did remove po4, but most of it was from the rocks and not the water column. If you keep doing this, you will eventually lower everything in the tank.

If you have 0.02 ppm of po4 and are feeding your fish well, then I would not dose anything. The 0.02 is a surplus and the rock and sand will buffer and make it really hard to get to true zero. What does 0.10 of po4 do that 0.02 does not do? I would also not try and lower from 0.10 to 0.02 if it were the other way around unless you have corals that are suffering.

How does the tank look? It has been a while since we asked. If it looks OK, I would just keep on keeping on.

I did notice the PO did not drop below 5 ppb even when dosing LC. They did drop to 0ppb soon after the waterchange and that's when I got a bacteria bloom. It didn't clear up until I reduced vodka dosing so depleted PO was the cause. I notice everything starts looking stressed once PO goes below 10ppb. The tanks doing fine just alot of stages of growth then no growth and then repeat. I had to reduce light intensity by 10% during these times.

This is the only reason why I may have to dose PO until my vodka dose is reduced to a good level. I think a little bit of Phosphates on hand will be good so incase it drops down further after waterchange evens I can bring it up and continue along without having a bacteria bloom

 

[Ashish Patel]

 

[Miami Reef]

I think a little bit of Phosphates on hand

Dosing sodium phosphate is inexpensive, pure, and has no negative consequences. It can only benefit your tank. You also have total control of how much you would like to raise the PO4 by.

Link to Amazon. Loudwolf pure sodium phosphate:

Amazon.com

Here’s a calculator to get the correct dose. Select potassium phosphate. It is close enough for our purpose.

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

www.theplantedtank.co.uk

 

[Miami Reef]

Tank looks really nice. I’m envious of your orange shoulder tang. Stunning!

 

[Ashish Patel]

Anyone care to read my Testing on this tank here you go. Not sure anyone can understand but PO is there

 

[Ashish Patel]

Tank looks really nice. I’m envious of your orange shoulder tang. Stunning!

Thanks! You know I am considering putting it on sale on fb market place. If I can't get my NO3 down I may have no choice. Tank will not look the same without him. Plus I think I can get $300+

 

[Ashish Patel]

Dosing sodium phosphate is inexpensive, pure, and has no negative consequences. It can only benefit your tank. You also have total control of how much you would like to raise the PO4 by.

Link to Amazon. Loudwolf pure sodium phosphate:

Amazon.com

Here’s a calculator to get the correct dose. Select potassium phosphate. It is close enough for our purpose.

[URL unfu

Dosing sodium phosphate is inexpensive, pure, and has no negative consequences. It can only benefit your tank. You also have total control of how much you would like to raise the PO4 by.

Link to Amazon. Loudwolf pure sodium phosphate:

Amazon.com

Here’s a calculator to get the correct dose. Select potassium phosphate. It is close enough for our purpose.

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

www.theplantedtank.co.uk

This is very helpful, I was going to get Seachem product but I know this is probably a lot better on the wallet.

 

[Miami Reef]

This is very helpful, I was going to get Seachem product but I know this is probably a lot better on the wallet.

Seachem doesn’t have a purity for their product. This one I posted is Randy approved.

 

[lmfbs]

Are you open to adding an algae scrubber? They are very effective nitrate export. They can also increase the pH in your tank. It’s also very satisfying to harvest all that algae that grows. I found an extremely good quality scrubber that is inexpensive (compared to the clear water scrubbers).

Keen for the algae scrubber rec!

 

[Miami Reef]

Keen for the algae scrubber rec!

Keen? What does that mean?

I got mine from here. It was built extremely well and was not expensive compared to other scrubbers. The person on eBay has outstanding reviews and customer service. He has many different types of scrubbers with different configurations.

This is the one I got for my tank. It’s a hang-on-back, but he also sells side and down pipe flows. He responded quick to my questions. He’s very reputable on eBay.

Highly recommend this! https://www.ebay.com/itm/1158091762...TxxYzHbQvW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Ashish Patel]

Keen for the algae scrubber rec!

I actually purchased a light and the mesh and added one last year. However, it was not effective since it was not getting good enough waterflow as I would have had to add a separate pump and enclosure. I did not have that much flow to spare from my return so eventually just scrapped it.
My newly adding frag tank is going to growing a lot of algae and its on a reverse Potoperiod so should help with the PH. I am reluctant to add another piece of equipment in my already filled sump. I may put some of that mesh in their and have it serve as a scrubber but whats holding me back is want a clear water scrubber, if the price was not $899 I would for sure give it but its cheaper for me to just make a fuge with cheato. Yeah its messier and ATS would be so easy and clean but the cost factor is stopping me. Maybe in the future I will make a massive one out of all the 3 acylic tanks and sumps I have, I could use my vectra M1 as a the feed and add a lot of lights. Maybe in the future if my aquarium is famous they will sponsor this thread and give me one to try for free lol

 

[lmfbs]

Keen? What does that mean?

I got mine from here. It was built extremely well and was not expensive compared to other scrubbers. The person on eBay has outstanding reviews and customer service. He has many different types of scrubbers with different configurations.

This is the one I got for my tank. It’s a hang-on-back, but he also sells side and down pipe flows. He responded quick to my questions. He’s very reputable on eBay.

Highly recommend this! https://www.ebay.com/itm/1158091762...TxxYzHbQvW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Oh this might be a regional thing - it means "I'd like this"/"I'm excited for".

"I'm keen for a pie" = "I'm excited about having a pie"

 

[Ashish Patel]

I am Keen for my NO3 to drop

 

[ScuttleBug]

I have a 120 gallon that had nitrates in the 150 range, now down to 30 or so and coming back down slowly. I installed an awc that changes about 2% daily that was helping but it was slow. My issue was the phosphates kept hitting zero and I couldn't get macro algae to grow even after adding phospate. So I started chaetogrow. Started getting some hair algae to grow so I ordered some Caulerpa paspaloides, The chaetogrow seemed to be the missing piece. The macro exploded in my refugium and dropped nitrates to 100 in about 2 weeks.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I have a 120 gallon that had nitrates in the 150 range, now down to 30 or so and coming back down slowly. I installed an awc that changes about 2% daily that was helping but it was slow. My issue was the phosphates kept hitting zero and I couldn't get macro algae to grow even after adding phospate. So I started chaetogrow. Started getting some hair algae to grow so I ordered some Caulerpa paspaloides, The chaetogrow seemed to be the missing piece. The macro exploded in my refugium and dropped nitrates to 100 in about 2 weeks.

That's amazing. I can already see my frag tank is growing alot of algae. I have the mesh I purchased for a srubber and may just add it to the surface and make a poor man's scrubber. If I could find some cheato I could even use a section on my frag tank. I want to avoid clutter so utilizing the space and light in my frag tank seems like a free solution.

Also I dose red sea iron weekly since this element gets depleted faster with a refugium. I may use Randy's method for

dosing iron which to be honest always looking for a way to decrease maintenance cost since I have 600gallons of saltwater and bottle of anything last only 2-3 months