Nitrate Control - The natural way (Help needed)

[PerplexyHexy]

And also... water changes only remove a small fraction of nutrient levels in a tank... I find this not a very useful technique in my experience...

 

[PerplexyHexy]

great insight thanks mate, I will for sure try and get my feeding more consistent, right now it's probably way too inconsistent to expect stable test results. Some days I add an extra pinch of pellets, other days I skip feeding entirely because i'm worried about further spiking the nitrates.

Your welcome my friend... remember to make small changes... an auto feeder is cheap... start with feeding and test for a week or two... see whats happening and then monkey around with reactor to see how well its exporting

 

[Neoalchemist]

Good advise. I'm looking at my auto feeder in a new light. I still like a higher volume of cheato though.

 

[Dan_P]

Excuse the long post, I am going to try and give you as much information as I can to help figure out the core of my nitrate problem and how to resolve it.

My nitrates are slowly killing my corals I have 3 Trachy's and a bunch of other LPS corals which are slowly starting to show skeletons and my Nitrates are sitting at around 40-50ppm (red sea test kit) on my Waterbox 130.4.

My tank is 6 months old and all other parameters are mostly in check.
My temp sits between 26-27 degrees Celsius
pH is a stable 8.2
S.G is 1.025
kH between 8-9 (trying to stabilize it with auto-dosing)
Calc around 400
Mag was high (1600) but have stopped dosing it entirely for now and will test again in a few days
Phosphate reads 0-2ppb on my Hanna ULR

I've recently introduced more CuC (2 glass cleaning snails, 2 of those surface sand cleaners and 2 of the snails that dig below the sand and live/eat under there) as well as 2 sand-sifting star fish.

I've got a clarisea SK5000 roller, a GW-10 Skimmer and a PacificSun small algea reactor (newly installed, 2 weeks old) and i've been doing 10% WCs every week for the past 3 weeks (before this I was doing a 10% WC every 2-3 weeks), but my nitrates aren't coming down.

The fish I have are:
2 clowns
1 yellow tang
1 lipstick tang
1 sailfin tang
6 blue/yellow tail damsels (mostly small)

Few questions:

1. How long will it take for the algea reactor and chaeto to actually start reducing nitrates? - I have seen it grow twice it's size since I first started it up, and I removed half of it with my last WC.
2. How long can my corals go on like this before they can't recover?
3. How long will the corals take roughly TO recover?
4. Is there anything else I should do to help reduce nitrates?
5. Is it possible my RO-DI system could need canisters changed? Could that be contributing to the Nitrates? The RO system is also 6 months old (bought brand new) and I keep it outside where it's exposed to sun/rain.

I don't particularly want to dose any chemicals to bring nitrates down. I've also reduced my feeding from 1-2 times a day (I had anthias) to once every 2-3 days. As a result my anthia starved itself to death.

I usually feed Anthia Pro S pellets (a few pinches worth, and there's usually nothing left over) and Nori sheets for the tangs (two rows worth every 2-3 days).
I dose 2-part (Kh, calc) and Bio-enhance.
I used to also dose phytoplankton every few days but have stopped that for the last 2 weeks.

I occasionally swap out the pellet feed for frozen cubes once every week.

I struggled with 0 nitrates and corals which lacked colour for months so I started to overfeed, and reduce WC's but I obviously took it too far and learnt my lesson. Now I just need help to find stable ground again and save my corals!

WOW you have a complex situation, high nitrates, low phosphates, and coral that seem to be dying.

I am not sure what the consensus is about high nitrate levels harming coral. My impression is that it might not. Research this or make another post on the topic. Your coral’s health problem may be caused by something else.

I have been reading many posts about a very low phosphate level harming stony corals. My impression of the consensus is that your PO4 level is too low for coral. You will also find a narrative about a very low PO4 level causing dinoflagellate growth. And finally, low PO4 can slow the growth of algae, for example, the stuff in your algae reactor.

It is good to check your RODI system. A poorly functioning system could be letting NO3 through if it is in the water supply. Also, if chloramine is in the water supply and is getting through, that would be like dosing ammonia, resulting in nitrate production In the system.

As for how fast an algae reactor takes to remove nitrate, I would estimate weeks to months.

With regard to testing water with high nitrates, it must be diluted so you will be able to see a change in color when one of your remedies starts to work. Attempting to measure nitrate levels above 10 ppm without diluting the sample is prone to very inaccurate results.

 

[diemaker]

how deep is your sand bed? feeding that much is probably leaving a lot of junk in your sand bed. I went through a similar issue and I vacuum all the nasty out of the sand bed did 2 water changes and problem solved. But I only run about 11/2" of sand. I also only feed pellet food till this was solved. HTH

 

[the.introvertebrate]

WOW you have a complex situation, high nitrates, low phosphates, and coral that seem to be dying.

I am not sure what the consensus is about high nitrate levels harming coral. My impression is that it might not. Research this or make another post on the topic. Your coral’s health problem may be caused by something else.

I have been reading many posts about a very low phosphate level harming stony corals. My impression of the consensus is that your PO4 level is too low for coral. You will also find a narrative about a very low PO4 level causing dinoflagellate growth. And finally, low PO4 can slow the growth of algae, for example, the stuff in your algae reactor.

It is good to check your RODI system. A poorly functioning system could be letting NO3 through if it is in the water supply. Also, if chloramine is in the water supply and is getting through, that would be like dosing ammonia, resulting in nitrate production In the system.

As for how fast an algae reactor takes to remove nitrate, I would estimate weeks to months.

With regard to testing water with high nitrates, it must be diluted so you will be able to see a change in color when one of your remedies starts to work. Attempting to measure nitrate levels above 10 ppm without diluting the sample is prone to very inaccurate results.

How do you raise Po4 without polluting the tank or spiking other parameters? I've always had relatively low Po4 so I am wondering if you're right about the po4 being the culprit here. That said, my nitrates still register high so i'd wanna control that asap regardless.

I tested for nitrates in my RODI (tested a fresh batch) and it returned a reading of 0. I will do an ammonia test on a batch as well for peace of mind.

 

[the.introvertebrate]

how deep is your sand bed? feeding that much is probably leaving a lot of junk in your sand bed. I went through a similar issue and I vacuum all the nasty out of the sand bed did 2 water changes and problem solved. But I only run about 11/2" of sand. I also only feed pellet food till this was solved. HTH

My sandbed is about 2.5 - 4cm thick, some areas its less than 2cm because snails or flow has blown the sand around, I have tried recently with my WC's to stir the sand up a little to release the junk for the clarisea and skimmer to clean. I also introduced two nassarius snails to combat junk build up under the sandbed.

Also what does 11/2" mean? Sorry in Australia we don't talk in inches so I haven't been educated on what 11/2" would measure as and I feel stupid for asking.. Google conversion seems to be telling me that 11/2" is 5.5inches which seems crazy thick?

 

[Rick.45cal]

I think low phosphates are likely why your corals are struggling and not the high nitrates. You actually want some phosphates available. There‘s at least a couple ways you can increase it. You can dose a solution of phosphate to the tank or you can feed lots of foods that are high in phosphorus.

 

[Rick.45cal]

FWIW 1.5 inches is 3.81 cm (1 inch is 2.54cm)

 

[the.introvertebrate]

FWIW 1.5 inches is 3.81 cm (1 inch is 2.54cm)

Cheers, how do you interpret 11/2" then? is that 2.11inches?

 

[John08007]

Sorry, too much to read. The chaeto is using nitrates if it's growing. Why not get a biopellet reactor. I have a 2 fishes, remove the foam filter and it's pretty much maintain free.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Cheers, how do you interpret 11/2" then? is that 2.11inches?

1.5 inches is 1 1/2”

 

[the.introvertebrate]

Sorry, too much to read. The chaeto is using nitrates if it's growing. Why not get a biopellet reactor. I have a 2 fishes, remove the foam filter and it's pretty much maintain free.

TL;DR is I think my nitrates which are 50 at the moment are slowly killing my LPS corals. My phosphate is low all other paramaters are in check.

I have a Skimmer, Clarisea Roller and a newly installed algea reactor. Chaeto is growing well but nitrates still pretty high with regular 10% WC's for 3 weeks now.

I don't know if low phosphate is killing my LPS corals, or high nitrates. I also don't have a lot of room in my sump for another reactor.

 

[John08007]

TL;DR is I think my nitrates which are 50 at the moment are slowly killing my LPS corals. My phosphate is low all other paramaters are in check.

I have a Skimmer, Clarisea Roller and a newly installed algea reactor. Chaeto is growing well but nitrates still pretty high with regular 10% WC's for 3 weeks now.

I don't know if low phosphate is killing my LPS corals, or high nitrates. I also don't have a lot of room in my sump for another reactor.

I'd do a larger than 10% water change. I didn't see how big your tank is but you can pick up a brute trashcan to mix up a larger batch. Just heat it up before so you don't dump 60 degree water into your tank.

 

[the.introvertebrate]

I'd do a larger than 10% water change. I didn't see how big your tank is but you can pick up a brute trashcan to mix up a larger batch. Just heat it up before so you don't dump 60 degree water into your tank.

130gal tank, I can probably get away with a 20% WC at a time with the bins I have

 

[John08007]

130gal tank, I can probably get away with a 20% WC at a time with the bins I have

I'd do that, if you have a vac try to clean out your sand also. Is your chaeto reactor rated for a specific size tank? Granted it depends on your fish and feeding but a tiny reactor wont do much.

 

[the.introvertebrate]

I'd do that, if you have a vac try to clean out your sand also. Is your chaeto reactor rated for a specific size tank? Granted it depends on your fish and feeding but a tiny reactor wont do much.

Rated for 130gal (my tank size). I will keep vacing the sand with my WC's as well. How do you vac the sand without it sucking up the sand itself?

 

[Willylumplump]

I am curious, your original post said the tank is 6mths old, however at the end, you said struggled with 0 nitrates for months. My guess is that it hadn’t cycled when you initially tested, and after nitrates have built. At six months, I wouldn’t think your sandbed would absorb enough to make a difference
you tested your ro water, but do you have an in-line tds meter to know when to change out the filters?
I initially read through because I have had problems with 0 nutrients and trying to find a balance. I ran refugium, 10 inch sandbed in refugium(58 gal tank),100 gal sump half full of rock, bio pellets. Nothing would grow.
Since then I have removed all sand, half the rock, and half the pellets. I now have coralline algae growing, and ready to start again.
For feeding, watch your fish. Keep them plump. You can see if their bellies are full or concave.
I can tell you bio pellets can/will work, but too much will cause cynao, and from my experience tend to deplete potassium.

 

[the.introvertebrate]

I am curious, your original post said the tank is 6mths old, however at the end, you said struggled with 0 nitrates for months. My guess is that it hadn’t cycled when you initially tested, and after nitrates have built. At six months, I wouldn’t think your sandbed would absorb enough to make a difference
you tested your ro water, but do you have an in-line tds meter to know when to change out the filters?
I initially read through because I have had problems with 0 nutrients and trying to find a balance. I ran refugium, 10 inch sandbed in refugium(58 gal tank),100 gal sump half full of rock, bio pellets. Nothing would grow.
Since then I have removed all sand, half the rock, and half the pellets. I now have coralline algae growing, and ready to start again.
For feeding, watch your fish. Keep them plump. You can see if their bellies are full or concave.
I can tell you bio pellets can/will work, but too much will cause cynao, and from my experience tend to deplete potassium.

I saw nitrates spike during the cycle but dropped back down quickly with water changes, my skimmer and low bioload (started with a hand full of fish) I was also much more careful with feeding so my nitrates never got a chance to creep back up and my LPS weren't getting enough to thrive so I started to overfeed and reduce WC frequencies to every 2-3 weeks and then it all caught upto me. Btw did you mean 1inch thick Sandbed or are you actually running a 10inch thick Sandbed? That seems pretty dang thick

 

[YankeeTankee]

You're in a tough spot, I'd probably dose some phosphate, and carbon dose also.

Carbon dosing will bring down your N more than P, but at these levels will take your P to 0 which is why I suggest both. Go slowly. Dose P first.