Next step to raise ph - help me decide

[GrandmaReefer]

I need thoughts on which next step to take regarding my low ph problem.

Ph is stable daily 7.8 - 7.9. Apex probe.
Alk is stable between 8.9 - 9.1. Trident.
105g (25g sump) Few LPS, lots of softies, fairly well stocked.

BRS Co2 scrubber running - stopped being effective last month.

I have tried aeration tests -
1. Outside air to skimmer, to tank, to co2 scrubber. Each 1 hour. No appreciable improvement.
2. Dosing alk improves, but not beyond 7.9. I don’t want to ramp up alk beyond where it is - the tank is happy at 9ish.

Next possible steps:

1. Stop chasing ph. It’s stable, tank looks good. Growth is slow in LPS but they’re doing fine. Softies growing good.

2. New skimmer. I’m running a Nyos Quantum 160 which is undersized for a heavier stocked tank.

3. Something I haven’t thought of/tried.

I’m dosing Reef Fusion 2 part. No alk - the CA dose is keeping alk stable. I could switch to B-ionic? Not sure that will change anything.

Thoughts on my next step? I’m leaning toward #1. I’m having a whole house air exchanger put in for my husband - his lungs are compromised - and that might do something. Aeration test failures lead me to believe it won’t but you never know.

Interestingly, manual Red Sea ph tests show between 8.1 in the morning and 8.2 later. Consistently. Hmmmph.

 

[Formulator]

BRS Co2 scrubber running - stopped being effective last month.

Replace the scrubber media?

 

[GrandmaReefer]

Replace the scrubber media?

Tried that. Several times. :-(

No help. Maybe the water is too low on CO2?

I’ve got a ball of chaeto that grows like crazy…. Maybe it’s depleting the co2 too much and keeping ph low?

 

[Formulator]

Interestingly, manual Red Sea ph tests show between 8.1 in the morning and 8.2 later. Consistently. Hmmmph.

This is normal. Your pH will be lowest in the morning and highest right before lights out. This is due to photosynthesis consumption of CO2. Here is my daily pH cycle for example.

 

[GrandmaReefer]

Yeah - my fascination is in the differences between my apex and the manual test. Both consistent - but different ranges.

I’ve recalibrated my probe, replaced the probe, no change.

 

[Formulator]

Tried that. Several times. :-(

No help. Maybe the water is too low on CO2?

I’ve got a ball of chaeto that grows like crazy…. Maybe it’s depleting the co2 too much and keeping ph low?

CO2 lowers pH, so if CO2 were low, you wouldn’t have this problem. More likely you have excess CO2. How is your flow at the water surface in the DT? Rippling good?

 

[Solo McReefer]

When CO2 goes down

pH goes up

I shake the canister when I think it's being a bit lazy. Probably placebo effect, "ya, that works"

I added the tablespoon of water this time, I have no idea what that does or did anything at all

 

[GrandmaReefer]

Yup. Both returns breaking the surface. Water moves well - it’s a syncra 7 pushing about 550gph.

 

[GrandmaReefer]

I need thoughts on which next step to take regarding my low ph problem.

Ph is stable daily 7.8 - 7.9. Apex probe.
Alk is stable between 8.9 - 9.1. Trident.
105g (25g sump) Few LPS, lots of softies, fairly well stocked.

BRS Co2 scrubber running - stopped being effective last month.

I have tried aeration tests -
1. Outside air to skimmer, to tank, to co2 scrubber. Each 1 hour. No appreciable improvement.
2. Dosing alk improves, but not beyond 7.9. I don’t want to ramp up alk beyond where it is - the tank is happy at 9ish.

Next possible steps:

1. Stop chasing ph. It’s stable, tank looks good. Growth is slow in LPS but they’re doing fine. Softies growing good.

2. New skimmer. I’m running a Nyos Quantum 160 which is undersized for a heavier stocked tank.

3. Something I haven’t thought of/tried.

I’m dosing Reef Fusion 2 part. No alk - the CA dose is keeping alk stable. I could switch to B-ionic? Not sure that will change anything.

Thoughts on my next step? I’m leaning toward #1. I’m having a whole house air exchanger put in for my husband - his lungs are compromised - and that might do something. Aeration test failures lead me to believe it won’t but you never know.

Interestingly, manual Red Sea ph tests show between 8.1 in the morning and 8.2 later. Consistently. Hmmmph.

UPDATE: I have decided not to chase ph.

I checked the co2 levels around the tank - low 400s. Normal. Aeration tests say it isn’t the water co2 content either. I still see conflicting values between manual test and probe.

Everything is doing fine so I’m going to just sit for now and monitor.

 

[GrandmaReefer]

Update: I’m starting to believe there’s some electrical interference or there’s a problem with the Apex unit itself.

Manual tests in the morning show my ph about 8.1. Apex says 7.8.

I have a second apex in my “fish room” from an old tank. I use it to check salt water mixes. THAT probe reads just fine on freshly mixed saltwater - 8.2. Right on the money.

If I pull that probe to the tank, it reads low. But when I tested water from the tank in a cup in the fish room this morning, it’s about 8.1.

Me thinks I have some interference going on. Glad I didn’t do anything ridiculous to try to increase my ph as it seems to be just fine and actually sits between 8.1 and 8.2. Which weirdly is where it was 3 months ago when my probe freaked out and started reading low.

 

[Formulator]

If the same probe measures different values on 2 different apex units, that points to a calibration issue. Have you recalibrated?

 

[Pntbll687]

When CO2 goes down

pH goes up

I shake the canister when I think it's being a bit lazy. Probably placebo effect, "ya, that works"

I added the tablespoon of water this time, I have no idea what that does or did anything at all

Adding water to the bottom of the co2 media canister helps make a water vapor which will slightly dissolve the media (so little you can't see it) enough to get the sodium hydroxide into the water and raise ph.

Shaking the canister probably does have an effect because you moved the media. Air just like water will follow the path of least resistance and can create "channels" through the media, so much so that the air is not making contact with media that can still absorb co2.

 

[Pntbll687]

UPDATE: I have decided not to chase ph.

I checked the co2 levels around the tank - low 400s. Normal. Aeration tests say it isn’t the water co2 content either. I still see conflicting values between manual test and probe.

Everything is doing fine so I’m going to just sit for now and monitor.

At least you tested the co2 around the tank. That's low co2 in the air, and probably why the co2 scrubber has little effect.

How much alk is the tank consuming? At this point, you'll probably only see a ph rise by using an alk solution that will raise ph.

 

[GrandmaReefer]

Not much. Unless my doser (Simplicity 4head) is dosing when it shouldn’t. I have a DOS on the way - I want to try more granular testing/ dosing to try to keep it more stable.

About 6ml RF2 every other day. The tank just isn’t consuming as much as I think it should. There’s some alk from the CA dosing, but I’m guessing about .2-.4 dKH a day.

The Trident tracks from 9.3 to 9.1 over two days. I’ll dose to raise and let it drop. Not much of a ph bump from that in a 125g system.

 

[GrandmaReefer]

If the same probe measures different values on 2 different apex units, that points to a calibration issue. Have you recalibrated?

Multiple times. Same results.

I’m running the probes through a wall and there is electrical wire running as well. I was careful not to get too close but I fear some of the tank lights/etc power cords are interfering. I may run a new conduit through the wall to eliminate that possibility and retest.

 

[Pntbll687]

Not much. Unless my doser (Simplicity 4head) is dosing when it shouldn’t. I have a DOS on the way - I want to try more granular testing/ dosing to try to keep it more stable.

About 6ml RF2 every other day. The tank just isn’t consuming as much as I think it should. There’s some alk from the CA dosing, but I’m guessing about .2-.4 dKH a day.

The Trident tracks from 9.3 to 9.1 over two days. I’ll dose to raise and let it drop. Not much of a ph bump from that in a 125g system.

If you're getting to the .4-.5dkh per day, you could look at dosing kalkwasser. It's a 1:1 ratio of calcium to alk, so you only need one solution. Downside is that it takes up allot of space. I currently dose 4ml a minute on my 100g frag system, and use a 12 gallon container that I'm filler every 10 days or so.

Kalkwasser isn't a magic solution, you'll probably get somewhere in the .1-.2 bump in ph from using it.

 

[Solo McReefer]

UPDATE: I have decided not to chase ph

why?

 

[GrandmaReefer]

why?

Well, the tank is happy. Nothing seems stressed or bothered by the lower ph.

While I am looking to raise it, I’m not going to chase it as the single most important parameter. I don’t want to fixate on ph and in doing so, upset the rest of the balance.

I’ve got growth, I’ve got euphylia splitting and growing new heads. Is it super fast? No. But it is growing and this is my retirement tank. I’ve got time….

 

[work3fish4]

Well, the tank is happy. Nothing seems stressed or bothered by the lower ph.

While I am looking to raise it, I’m not going to chase it as the single most important parameter. I don’t want to fixate on ph and in doing so, upset the rest of the balance.

I’ve got growth, I’ve got euphylia splitting and growing new heads. Is it super fast? No. But it is growing and this is my retirement tank. I’ve got time….

That was the best answer I have seen in a bit to end a thread, perfect

 

[Solo McReefer]

, I’m not going to chase it as the single most important parameter.

It's not the single most important parameter

It's like temperature

Are you going to forego a heater, and just run room temp, because you don't want to chase temp?

It's easier than you think to get it up

Virtually every animal in my tank responds to very well at pH 8.3. Which is very achievable

/shrug. It is of course your tank, do as you will