Newly hatched AEFW size?

Sallstrom · Apr 12, 2018

Hi,

Looking for the size of newly hatched AEFW but can't find it. Anyone?

Feel free to post links to good articles or threads.

Want to find out if it's possible to filter water from AEFW(want to use the water from a AEFW-tank to a non-AEFW tank).

Thanks in advance!

/ David

29bonsaireef · Apr 12, 2018

I would imagine they would be somewhere around the size of the eggs, if you know what those look like. I don't think they spend much time if any in the water column. If you ran the water through a filter sock I don't think they could pass through.

Sallstrom · Apr 12, 2018

Yes, I'm familiar with the eggs. Too familiar

The closest I've seen is pictures in the supplementary materials in this article:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00338-013-1101-6
There you can see the egg capsules and it looks like the embyos are about 0,1-0,2 mm.

But it would be nice if there were some more data or articles about the newly hatched AEFW. I'm dreaming of being 100% sure the filter takes the small ones.

I work at a public aquarium and we will build a new large coral tank(and a whole new aquarium building) and want to use the corals from our present tanks. The new tank/aquarium will open fall 2021, so there's time to breed and quarantine the corals. I'm looking into different solutions to make sure no AEFW will come into the new aquariums.

Thanks for any help!

/ David

jda · Apr 12, 2018

You cannot really see them. If your turkey-based them off, you probably would not even know. They are small.

Search for Dr. Kate Rawlinson. She studied them a lot and also posted on the message boards for a while. Her stuff can get deep, but there is some info out there if you dig.

Run Flatworm Stop in that tank... it will get rid of the AEFW after a number of months... then you are golden. It works with patience and diligence:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25410382#post25410382

Sallstrom · Apr 12, 2018

jda said:
You cannot really see them. If your turkey-based them off, you probably would not even know. They are small.

Search for Dr. Kate Rawlinson. She studied them a lot and also posted on the message boards for a while. Her stuff can get deep, but there is some info out there if you dig.

Run Flatworm Stop in that tank... it will get rid of the AEFW after a number of months... then you are golden. It works with patience and diligence:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25410382#post25410382

Thanks!

Yes, I've tried to read as much as I can find from Dr Kate Rawlinson. Maybe could try to contact her.

But first I'll try myself

We have flatworms, eggs, microscopes and also a PhD in polychaetes in the same building. He's not that into turbellaria but I'm working on it. With his help I'm trying to do a DNA test to see if we have the same species as Rawlinson et al. Just wish we had more time to do more of this fun stuff at work..

I've tried Flatworm Stop but it was about five years ago. I'm not that into trying treatments for the whole tank nowadays, since I have become a coward..

But I'll keep it in mind if our plan A doesn't work out.

/ David

jda · Apr 12, 2018

There is nothing like a large infestation to scare the coward out of folks.

If you do not want to treat whole tanks, then I would suggest three levels of QT and isolation... and forget about your water transfer idea. I am as good as anybody about selective buying, isolation and QT and I have had them get past the first level into the second.

This if the Flatworm Stop not so much as a treatment, but a lifestyle change. It will not kill the worms. It appears to interrupt their breeding, so it takes many months for the adult worms to grow old and die leaving no children behind. I think that too many people gave up on it when they did not see immediate deaths like with Bayer, CoralRx or Interceptor with Red Bugs. If I am right and it is just a concentration of Wormwood (smells and tastes the same... super scientific, right?), then perhaps your Polychaetes PhD can help with a concentration that might be suitable for this situation - a double dose of the FW-Stop was harmless to the tank. You might even have a nice academic paper topic and even a speaking engagement if you can figure this out.

Sallstrom · Apr 13, 2018

jda said:
There is nothing like a large infestation to scare the coward out of folks. If you do not want to treat whole tanks, then I would suggest three levels of QT and isolation... and forget about your water transfer idea. I am as good as anybody about selective buying, isolation and QT and I have had them get past the first level into the second.

This if the Flatworm Stop not so much as a treatment, but a lifestyle change. It will not kill the worms. It appears to interrupt their breeding, so it takes many months for the adult worms to grow old and die leaving no children behind. I think that too many people gave up on it when they did not see immediate deaths like with Bayer, CoralRx or Interceptor with Red Bugs. If I am right and it is just a concentration of Wormwood (smells and tastes the same... super scientific, right?), then perhaps your Polychaetes PhD can help with a concentration that might be suitable for this situation - a double dose of the FW-Stop was harmless to the tank. You might even have a nice academic paper topic and even a speaking engagement if you can figure this out.

True

Yes, right now the idea is to cut branches, dip, then transfer to a new tank. Repeat as many times as we need to feel sure they are gone(always put the corals in a clean tank afterwards). But I don't want to start those new and clean tanks with newly mixed salt water. I want to use water from a well working tank to fill it up. That's the main reason for the size question. I want to filter the water from the old tank to the new one. Doesn't have to be high flow.

If we were to keep our old tanks running I might have tried FW Stop. But after September we will start moving corals to smaller tanks anyway. But maybe we could use it to "cure" the rock from flatworms during the build time, together with isolation(no Acropora).
Then there is the volume, we have about 45 000 litres now in our different tanks where we keep Acropora

Anyway, I'm glad for the input and we're working on to find the best solution. So nothing is decided yet.

/ David

familiar1985 · May 14, 2018

I recently did what you are talking about in this thread. It appears that newly hatched AEFW are approx 50-100 micron (based on another thread i believe where pictures of hatchlings where taken).

1) I setup a new frag tank, but instead of using fresh saltwater and establishing a filtration system I put an inline dual chamber 5 micron sediment filter between the established infected tank and new frag tank. Water flows from infected tank through two 5 micron sediment filters into the new frag tank, then overflows from frag tank back to the sump of the infected tank. Purpose is to mechanically filter out any AEFW while keeping new system stable. Frag tank I setup is about 40gal and turnover through sediment filters is approx 4-6x tank vol per 24 hours. I have had this running for almost two months on the original filters.

2) I removed all acropora from Infected Tank, inspected, dipped in Bayer, and glued onto new frag plugs/disks. Then placed into the frag tank which should theoretically have no aefw. I also dipped corals from the frag tank after transfer 1x per week for 4 weeks just in case there were any worms left after initial transfer.

There are no AEFW as of now (approx 3 weeks after last dip), and I could not find any AEFW during the 4 dips after transfer to Frag Tank. I am planning to wait 3-4 months and make sure there are no signs of AEFW in the frag tank. Then I plan to implement similar methods for quarantine of new acropora tied to established systems separated by mechanical filtration.

-Eugene

Sallstrom · May 15, 2018

familiar1985 said:
I recently did what you are talking about in this thread. It appears that newly hatched AEFW are approx 50-100 micron (based on another thread i believe where pictures of hatchlings where taken).

1) I setup a new frag tank, but instead of using fresh saltwater and establishing a filtration system I put an inline dual chamber 5 micron sediment filter between the established infected tank and new frag tank. Water flows from infected tank through two 5 micron sediment filters into the new frag tank, then overflows from frag tank back to the sump of the infected tank. Purpose is to mechanically filter out any AEFW while keeping new system stable. Frag tank I setup is about 40gal and turnover through sediment filters is approx 4-6x tank vol per 24 hours. I have had this running for almost two months on the original filters.

2) I removed all acropora from Infected Tank, inspected, dipped in Bayer, and glued onto new frag plugs/disks. Then placed into the frag tank which should theoretically have no aefw. I also dipped corals from the frag tank after transfer 1x per week for 4 weeks just in case there were any worms left after initial transfer.

There are no AEFW as of now (approx 3 weeks after last dip), and I could not find any AEFW during the 4 dips after transfer to Frag Tank. I am planning to wait 3-4 months and make sure there are no signs of AEFW in the frag tank. Then I plan to implement similar methods for quarantine of new acropora tied to established systems separated by mechanical filtration.

-Eugene