Biological means of fighting “new AEFW”

[Viking_Reefing]

Hey all!

I’ve been dealing with a situation for some time that has me scratching my head. Somehow I’ve managed to contract AEFW in my tank. Not just any AEFW but the new variety that has started showing up in the hobby:

Is This a NEW Acro Eating Flatworm? | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Coral pests are never fun, especially the type that are hard to remove with a simple dip. But undesirable parasites are even scarier and coral life-threatening when we don’t even know what we’re…

reefbuilders.com

I first noticed them about 6 months ago and I really hadn’t added any corals for some time.
Now, I’ve dealt with standard AEFW in the past and they were fairly easily beaten: added some wrasses and dosed flatworm stop. Done deal.
These things however are something else, much more voracious feeders and multiply a lot faster. They can tear through a large colony in a matter of days. You don’t see the standard bit marks that’s usually associated with flat worms but it rather looks like RTN.

Now with dosing flatworm stop, adding more wrasses and lowering the temperature I’ve managed to halt their advance somewhat but not close to winning.

As I have a fairly large tank with a lot encrusted corals tearing it down and placing everything in QT really isn’t an option. That leaves biological control (and chemicals. Fenbendazole is a fairly common treatment here in Sweden against the common variety with a high degree of success rate but it’s fairly risky).

Long story short: has anyone any experience with these thing and perhaps has found a silver bullet in terms of fish/inverts. I currently have a sixline , black leopard , “standard” leopard , Timor, radiant and 2x yellow coris in terms of wrasses as well as some springeri damsels and peppermint shrimp that could be potential predators. I can’t say that they’ve made much headway honestly.

So, any thoughts on other possible additions that might provide some benefit in terms of control?

 

[Om84]

Flat worm stop never eradicated aefw for me in the past. What did was taking out all acros and dipping them in bayer every week. Had to do this for 4 weeks. For biological control I think you have it right with all the predators and perhaps you could blast your corals with a baster every couple days. Otherwise I’m not sure if you can eradicate aefw. Good luck.

 

[ScottB]

There was an article in Coral Magazine maybe a year ago saying that dosing Lanthanum Chloride has a very disruptive effect on AEFW. I believe it mentioned it would probably work on new AEFW as well. I posted a link to it here on R2R at that time. It was authored by the editor. It DID NOT go into the risks & side effects of doing so and they are very real. KCl binds phosphate like mad, precipitating out to a milky cloud of crystals. This can be unhealthy for fish gills and has even killed large healthy tangs. Also, a system without available phosphate will not support SPS. USE WITH CAUTION. Be prepared to supplement phosphates. Dose to a 5 micron sock very slowly.

Anecdotally, my experience supports the theory. I have two systems. One requires fairly regular KCl dosing the other does not. One has occasional AEFW flare ups, the other has never had them.

Good luck!

 

[Reefkeepers Archive]

Hey all!

I’ve been dealing with a situation for some time that has me scratching my head. Somehow I’ve managed to contract AEFW in my tank. Not just any AEFW but the new variety that has started showing up in the hobby:

Is This a NEW Acro Eating Flatworm? | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Coral pests are never fun, especially the type that are hard to remove with a simple dip. But undesirable parasites are even scarier and coral life-threatening when we don’t even know what we’re…

reefbuilders.com

I first noticed them about 6 months ago and I really hadn’t added any corals for some time.
Now, I’ve dealt with standard AEFW in the past and they were fairly easily beaten: added some wrasses and dosed flatworm stop. Done deal.
These things however are something else, much more voracious feeders and multiply a lot faster. They can tear through a large colony in a matter of days. You don’t see the standard bit marks that’s usually associated with flat worms but it rather looks like RTN.

Now with dosing flatworm stop, adding more wrasses and lowering the temperature I’ve managed to halt their advance somewhat but not close to winning.

As I have a fairly large tank with a lot encrusted corals tearing it down and placing everything in QT really isn’t an option. That leaves biological control (and chemicals. Fenbendazole is a fairly common treatment here in Sweden against the common variety with a high degree of success rate but it’s fairly risky).

Long story short: has anyone any experience with these thing and perhaps has found a silver bullet in terms of fish/inverts. I currently have a sixline , black leopard , “standard” leopard , Timor, radiant and 2x yellow coris in terms of wrasses as well as some springeri damsels and peppermint shrimp that could be potential predators. I can’t say that they’ve made much headway honestly.

So, any thoughts on other possible additions that might provide some benefit in terms of control?

Sorry your dealing with that. Though I didn't know you had a meleagris leopard wrasse!

 

[DangerDave]

There was an article in Coral Magazine maybe a year ago saying that dosing Lanthanum Chloride has a very disruptive effect on AEFW. I believe it mentioned it would probably work on new AEFW as well. I posted a link to it here on R2R at that time. It was authored by the editor. It DID NOT go into the risks & side effects of doing so and they are very real. KCl binds phosphate like mad, precipitating out to a milky cloud of crystals. This can be unhealthy for fish gills and has even killed large healthy tangs. Also, a system without available phosphate will not support SPS. USE WITH CAUTION. Be prepared to supplement phosphates. Dose to a 5 micron sock very slowly.

Anecdotally, my experience supports the theory. I have two systems. One requires fairly regular KCl dosing the other does not. One has occasional AEFW flare ups, the other has never had them.

Good luck!

I've never dealt with aefw, but i have used Lanthanum Chloride for phosphate management. I find the easiest way to use it safely is to use a dosing pump and deliver it directly into the body of a skimmer. It will work, and the precipitate is skimmed out. Good luck getting rid of those pests!

Dave

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Flat worm stop never eradicated aefw for me in the past. What did was taking out all acros and dipping them in bayer every week. Had to do this for 4 weeks. For biological control I think you have it right with all the predators and perhaps you could blast your corals with a baster every couple days. Otherwise I’m not sure if you can eradicate aefw. Good luck.

Flatworm stop in combination with basting and some predator pressure has easily gotten rid of the standard AEFW for me
In the past..or at least reduced the population to the point that it was a non issue even when I stopped basting/dosing.
I forgot to add that I’m also basting the corals.

There was an article in Coral Magazine maybe a year ago saying that dosing Lanthanum Chloride has a very disruptive effect on AEFW. I believe it mentioned it would probably work on new AEFW as well. I posted a link to it here on R2R at that time. It was authored by the editor. It DID NOT go into the risks & side effects of doing so and they are very real. KCl binds phosphate like mad, precipitating out to a milky cloud of crystals. This can be unhealthy for fish gills and has even killed large healthy tangs. Also, a system without available phosphate will not support SPS. USE WITH CAUTION. Be prepared to supplement phosphates. Dose to a 5 micron sock very slowly.

Anecdotally, my experience supports the theory. I have two systems. One requires fairly regular KCl dosing the other does not. One has occasional AEFW flare ups, the other has never had them.

Good luck!

I’ve read about that in the past as well, might be worth a shot based on your experience . However, I have very low nutrients numbers as is which might pose a problem as I don’t want to bomb po4. Could perhaps be balanced with dosing of phosphates though.

Sorry you’re dealing with that. Though I didn't know you had a meleagris leopard wrasse!

Yeah man, I think I’ve dealt with every pest known to man at some point and everything else has been fairly easily beatable/manageable…these things however is in another league.

Yeah, had it for some time. It’s so darn small so it kind of disappears in the tank.

 

[MabuyaQ]

There was an article in Coral Magazine maybe a year ago saying that dosing Lanthanum Chloride has a very disruptive effect on AEFW. I believe it mentioned it would probably work on new AEFW as well. I posted a link to it here on R2R at that time. It was authored by the editor. It DID NOT go into the risks & side effects of doing so and they are very real. KCl binds phosphate like mad, precipitating out to a milky cloud of crystals. This can be unhealthy for fish gills and has even killed large healthy tangs. Also, a system without available phosphate will not support SPS. USE WITH CAUTION. Be prepared to supplement phosphates. Dose to a 5 micron sock very slowly.

Anecdotally, my experience supports the theory. I have two systems. One requires fairly regular KCl dosing the other does not. One has occasional AEFW flare ups, the other has never had them.

Good luck!

Lanthanum chloride LaCl or Potassium chloride KCl?

 

[Reefkeepers Archive]

Yeah man, I think I’ve dealt with every pest known to man at some point

Ever dealt with sea spiders?

 

[ScottB]

Lanthanum chloride LaCl or Potassium chloride KCl?

In this case, lanthanam chloride. Yes, the primary use is PO4 reduction, but somehow it messes with AEFW. KCl is certainly the best acro dip solution for AEFW. Gentle on acros and kills the worms 100%.

Here is a thread with a link to some version of the article:

Lanthanum Chloride Kills Flatworms?!

I just read this super interesting article about the brief history of chemical treatments for flatworm infestations in reef tanks. "...they make no claims about the product having any biocide capability, but in many cases aquarists who used it found that a side effect of lanthanum treatment was...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[GlassMunky]

In this case, lanthanam chloride. Yes, the primary use is PO4 reduction, but somehow it messes with AEFW. KCl is certainly the best acro dip solution for AEFW. Gentle on acros and kills the worms 100%.

Here is a thread with a link to some version of the article:

Lanthanum Chloride Kills Flatworms?!

I just read this super interesting article about the brief history of chemical treatments for flatworm infestations in reef tanks. "...they make no claims about the product having any biocide capability, but in many cases aquarists who used it found that a side effect of lanthanum treatment was...

www.reef2reef.com

i think he was asking this because in your previous posts here you said Lanthanum chloride but then abbreviated it KCL so they were just asking for clarification.

KCl binds phosphate like mad, precipitating out to a milky cloud of crystals.

example ^

 

[Yanir34]

Hey all!

I’ve been dealing with a situation for some time that has me scratching my head. Somehow I’ve managed to contract AEFW in my tank. Not just any AEFW but the new variety that has started showing up in the hobby:

Is This a NEW Acro Eating Flatworm? | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Coral pests are never fun, especially the type that are hard to remove with a simple dip. But undesirable parasites are even scarier and coral life-threatening when we don’t even know what we’re…

reefbuilders.com

I first noticed them about 6 months ago and I really hadn’t added any corals for some time.
Now, I’ve dealt with standard AEFW in the past and they were fairly easily beaten: added some wrasses and dosed flatworm stop. Done deal.
These things however are something else, much more voracious feeders and multiply a lot faster. They can tear through a large colony in a matter of days. You don’t see the standard bit marks that’s usually associated with flat worms but it rather looks like RTN.

Now with dosing flatworm stop, adding more wrasses and lowering the temperature I’ve managed to halt their advance somewhat but not close to winning.

As I have a fairly large tank with a lot encrusted corals tearing it down and placing everything in QT really isn’t an option. That leaves biological control (and chemicals. Fenbendazole is a fairly common treatment here in Sweden against the common variety with a high degree of success rate but it’s fairly risky).

Long story short: has anyone any experience with these thing and perhaps has found a silver bullet in terms of fish/inverts. I currently have a sixline , black leopard , “standard” leopard , Timor, radiant and 2x yellow coris in terms of wrasses as well as some springeri damsels and peppermint shrimp that could be potential predators. I can’t say that they’ve made much headway honestly.

So, any thoughts on other possible additions that might provide some benefit in terms of control?

Oh I'm sad to read that!
I know that dipping every coral with bayer/potassium Chloride did the job for my friend ,but he dipped the SPS outside of the tank

 

[ScottB]

i think he was asking this because in your previous posts here you said Lanthanum chloride but then abbreviated it KCL so they were just asking for clarification.


example ^

Good catch.

 

[Kayvon]

I have heard that Mystery Wrasse were better predators for flatworms than any other wrasse. I have also heard Scooter Blennies will also eat flatworms. Sorry you are going through this. Hopefully the cure for this is found soon

 

[KrisReef]

I’m going through a divorce with my old reef and I think we have the same worm issue as the bite marks and tissue damage and quick colony damage/death caused me to tear apart my reef and set up a bathtub that I used to dip my rocks in KCL and then I could see the glory of dying worms that I couldn’t see before dipping (2Tablespoons/gallon kcl) in potassium chloride tank water.

I put everything from the dip into another temporary container and now need to dismantle the DT and sump to dip and clean the main system before reassembly.

Someone else has mentioned that they simply drained the DT and then sprayed the KCL/ marine water mix with a squirt bottle and then refilled the tank to kill the worms.

The drain, spray and refill has to be repeated to remove new hatching of eggs and I decided to modify the method because I wanted to clean and rescape anyway.

Using the spray limits the amount of KCL that remains diluted in the DT and it is a risk for snails and shrimps that may also die from exposure to full strength dip. I tried to limit transferring snails but still killed a few, but I was so busy thanking Our Lord Jesus for the wipe out of worms that I didn’t shed any tears for the collateral damage, we la vie.

Drain and spray, repeat until the eggs/ life cycle of the worms is done.

Good luck, hating worms ends when they are gone.

 

[jda]

Did you try Levamisole? Since these are different worms than the OG AEFW, it might be worth a shot.

Salifert Flatworm Exit, or you can make your own out of Prohibit Livestock Dewormer, if you can get it in the EU. I did 1 tsp of the Prohibit in a 500ml water bottle. .5 to 1ml of that solution for every gallon. Break off a branch and see if the solution will kill the worms.

The Levamisole is very effective against most worms, so it is worth a try. It is also not an issue for corals although some inverts get mad - some get stunned and some die.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Ever dealt with sea spiders?

I have, ages ago. I believe a melenarus wrasse got rid of those.

Oh I'm sad to read that!
I know that dipping every coral with bayer/potassium Chloride did the job for my friend ,but he dipped the SPS outside of the tank

Yeah, that would work but that would entail basically hacking out very large and encrusted colonies. In that case I’d rather just say screw it and start fresh.

I have heard that Mystery Wrasse were better predators for flatworms than any other wrasse. I have also heard Scooter Blennies will also eat flatworms. Sorry you are going through this. Hopefully the cure for this is found soon

Interesting. Mystery wrasses are very cool regardless so might try one. From dealing with the standard AEFW in the past my observation was that dragonettes weren’t effective unfortunately.

I’m going through a divorce with my old reef and I think we have the same worm issue as the bite marks and tissue damage and quick colony damage/death caused me to tear apart my reef and set up a bathtub that I used to dip my rocks in KCL and then I could see the glory of dying worms that I couldn’t see before dipping (2Tablespoons/gallon kcl) in potassium chloride tank water.

I put everything from the dip into another temporary container and now need to dismantle the DT and sump to dip and clean the main system before reassembly.

Someone else has mentioned that they simply drained the DT and then sprayed the KCL/ marine water mix with a squirt bottle and then refilled the tank to kill the worms.

The drain, spray and refill has to be repeated to remove new hatching of eggs and I decided to modify the method because I wanted to clean and rescape anyway.

Using the spray limits the amount of KCL that remains diluted in the DT and it is a risk for snails and shrimps that may also die from exposure to full strength dip. I tried to limit transferring snails but still killed a few, but I was so busy thanking Our Lord Jesus for the wipe out of worms that I didn’t shed any tears for the collateral damage, we la vie.

Drain and spray, repeat until the eggs/ life cycle of the worms is done.

Good luck, hating worms ends when they are gone.

Yeah, I doubt it’s all that feasible for me to tear out every single large colony unfortunately.
I think I’ve seen a video of what you are describing being done. Looks real interesting. However, I guess that would need to be repeated like every week or so for a month at least (not sure about the life cycle of these guys). In my case it would entail draining at least 800L of water weekly haha.

Did you try Levamisole? Since these are different worms than the OG AEFW, it might be worth a shot.

Salifert Flatworm Exit, or you can make your own out of Prohibit Livestock Dewormer, if you can get it in the EU. I did 1 tsp of the Prohibit in a 500ml water bottle. .5 to 1ml of that solution for every gallon. Break off a branch and see if the solution will kill the worms.

The Levamisole is very effective against most worms, so it is worth a try. It is also not an issue for corals although some inverts get mad - some get stunned and some die.

Interesting thought. I know that it’s, for whatever reason, ineffective against the standard variety but as you say, this is something different. Might be worth a shot!

 

[Kasrift]

Dealt/dealing with these now. I'm on week five of dipping my corals. Luckily most all my acros are on frag racks.

I had a couple losses which triggered this, but I did a few things. I tried Fauna Marin RtN/STN which is a specific type of tea tree oil. I thought it might have an affect like Flatworm Stop that is more a deterrent. I ran that for 10 days and kept dipping weekly in KCL. I haven't seen anything and the chewed up parts on the surviving acros is regrowing.

For whatever reason, these didn't seem to affect milli at all. Smooth skins were the first affected and then I lost one acropora microclades.

Also, experimented with API Melafix Marine as a dip outside the tank for one affected acro. It seemed to work. My local LFS uses it as a dip. So I tried this as an in tank treatment as well for a week after the RTN/STN product. No losses of inverts, anemones, corals or fish. I was most worried about my Christmas tree worm rock, but nothing seemed negatively affected by either in tank treatment.

 

[Kasrift]

Oh and for reference, I have 10 acros on the rockwork that I didn't pull, which is why I tried the in tank approach. Technically they are smaller colonies so I could cut them from the rock, but thought I'd try and see where I'm at.

Here are some attached to the rock that just went through in tank treatment.

They don't seem afflicted. Ones I lost were on the rocks before I started treatment, so in tank remedies must have done something.

 

[Reefkeepers Archive]

I have, ages ago. I believe a melenarus wrasse got rid of those.

Yeah, that would work but that would entail basically hacking out very large and encrusted colonies. In that case I’d rather just say screw it and start fresh.

Interesting. Mystery wrasses are very cool regardless so might try one. From dealing with the standard AEFW in the past my observation was that dragonettes weren’t effective unfortunately.

Yeah, I doubt it’s all that feasible for me to tear out every single large colony unfortunately.
I think I’ve seen a video of what you are describing being done. Looks real interesting. However, I guess that would need to be repeated like every week or so for a month at least (not sure about the life cycle of these guys). In my case it would entail draining at least 800L of water weekly haha.

Interesting thought. I know that it’s, for whatever reason, ineffective against the standard variety but as you say, this is something different. Might be worth a shot!

Wrasses got rid of them? Might try out a Halichoeres species as I'm dealing with them now. Always assumed that because they're nocturnal wrasses wouldn't believe able to get them

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

I've never dealt with this new variant of AEFW, but you may need to cut out the most infected colonies, glue over remaining bases on rock, scrape eggs, dip those colonies, then return them to the tank. Then continue with the flatworm stop and weekly basting sessions. It sounds like this may be needed to get numbers under control first. The basting and FWS approach seems to only have ever worked well when infestation is caught early or numbers are small. I think you may just need to do one dip session of the most infected corals to get things under control first. Just an opinion; good luck! You have an incredible system and I'm a big fan; I'm sure you'll get through this!