(Newbie) So Anxious for Reef, Maybe Pushing too Fast?

[LearnSomethingNew]

Hi,
I have wanted a reef tank for a couple years since I attended the Reef and Reptile show in Hampton VA. I have read and watched hundreds of YouTube Videos.
I took the plunge when I finally bought a 40g tall tank in a wood canopy from a former tank installer.
The tank has an internal standpipe with an overflow ring and slots of varying heights that drops straight down. This overflows into a 20g sump.
I added 40 lbs dry rock, 40 lbs live sand, with a simple sock filter and return pump on June 1 (approx.) I added a bottle of biospira and a blue damsel. I made my own water with a ro/di system and mixed to 1.024 salinity. I added two clowns third week of June.
Its now end of July. Test: Ammonia:0, nitrite:0, nitrate:<10ppm, pH:8.1, Alk:9.0, Temp 79deg.
I left the lights off(cause I didn't have any) throughout June. I added 3 strips of 12k led from TruLumen to the inside of the canopy that sit about 6 inches from top of water 2 weeks ago.
I have never had an algae bloom. I have added numerous hermit crabs(10+) and not one has lived over a few days. (Actually, the only crab that has lived is a small hermit my daughter brought back from the Florida Keys that is no bigger than a thumbtack) I assume without an algae bloom they are starving?
After 1 week of lights on in daytime(10 hrs) I order a starter pack from WWC. I rushed the acclimation process cause I thought I had to get them in the tank during my 20 minute lunch window. I think I shocked them and they do not look good (dead even?)
Then-
I went to a LFS and explained all this to what I thought was a quite helpful young man. I asked for some help and said I had a new tank. He sold me a large sandsifting star, 6 hermits, and a torch coral.(Bad move). I followed a slower acclimation process include Rx Dip. The star moved to a corner in about a minute and proceeded to die. The Torch Coral pulled in tight during the acclimation process and when place in the tank continue to pull in tight and within 24 hrs all that was showing was his rigid skeleton.
What am I missing as far as timing before successfully added some easy maintenance coral?
Do I keep running lights and do nothing until I get an algae bloom?
After 2 months, Am I still rushing things?
-Thanks for help and I am glad to be part of this forum and hope to be a lifetime reefer.
dp

 

[shrimped]

A sump with a decent protein skimmer is recommended. I typically don't like to use used equipment. Only coral dip corals. I believe dry rocks need curing (i think). Once rocks/sand and water is in wait for a month-3months. Good lighting such as T5, Metal Halide, or LED works but for LED use good brands such as Kessil, Aquaillumination, Radions. Do not get damsels they will most likely kill other fish. Get peaceful shrimp first for cycle. Maybe pictures can help out

 

[chickofthesea]

Test your water for copper. Was your rock and sand new or used? If all your inverts are dying I'd question things that kill them but don't kill fish. Sounds like fish do fine.

 

[shrimped]

+1 check water

 

[ciscomania]

did you dip the starfish in the rx dip also? did you cure those dry rocks? I think those tru lumen led strips are supposed to be supplemental lights for light fixture and not meant to be just stand alone reef lights iirc and definitely won't keep corals alive.

 

[shrimped]

I have the LOOP Orbit Pro from Current USA and it sucks. Don't get stuff from Current USA. Upgrading to a 54 gallon soon with Radion G4. This hobby is definitely more expensive than others so getting cheap equipment will lead to regret later. A well working equipment will last years.

 

[Gweeds1980]

All the above is great advice... don't rush corals or delicate inverts like stars (not your fault I know). 40lb of sand is nowhere near enough for a sand sifting star... can't believe they sold you that!!

Check for copper... If you have any, easiest thing might be to get rid of rock and start again...

Lights are your biggest issue imo with the corals... you need better. Read some of the threads on here re lighting and familiarise yourself with PAR, spectrum and all the other terms used, then you can start to compare lights. IMO if you're after cheap leds that will sustain a reef, you can't go far wrong with Chinese black boxes. Depending on what you want from the light vs cost, these run from Mars Aqua (about the cheapest) through to Evergrow / Reefbreeders IT20 series (most features).

You mention acclimation... what process are you following? Drip acclimation over a number of hours vs floating the bag in the tank is a huge difference.

You posted test results showing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 10ppm nitrate, which suggests your cycle has completed... what did you do to get to that point? Knowing step by step from when you bought the dry rock to today would be helpful.

Assuming you've cycled ok, there's no copper and you upgrade lights, then you'll likely have an algae breakout... this is when you add more cuc. Go for snails over hermits in terms of numbers and get some nassarius snails to keep your sandbed turned over rather than a sand sifting star. This is also the time to add chaeto or an algae scrubber to your sump if you want to... again read the threads on here for more info.

You don't mention a skimmer... do you have one? If not, suggest you get one, esp as a newbie, will really help to keep water params in check. You have a small sump so should have space for one easily.

This hobby can be done on a budget... trust me, I'm doing that with a 320g system (check my build thread... sorry for the blatant self endorsement!)

The key to doing it budget is to buy second hand, but buy quality. Second hand deltec skimmer will set you back about the same as a new marine sources skimmer but will work twice as well for twice as long ime.

I'm a big fan of TMC kit, it's relatively cheap, good quality and simple... just like me lol.

Once the algae is under control, add a few softies as first corals... id avoid xenia and gsp as can become pests later down the line, but toadstool and most sinularia are bullet proof.

A few guidelines which have helped me massively...

Ask before you buy, but don't trust 100% what the seller tells you... they want to sell after all

Don't change anything quickly. Only bad things happen quickly in this hobby.

If it's working, stop fiddling! There is something known as HITS (hands in tank syndrome) which describes a (normally) newbie who keeps fiddling and moving things about in the hope it'll make things better... it won't.

We keep water, not fish or corals. In other words, worry about the water quality and flow etc and the animals you have will thrive... concentrate on the animals and likely you'll end up with bad water.

Buy a TDS meter for you ro/di water... it'll tell you when you have problems before you even put the water in your tank.

Watch your tank... for hours if you can. Observation will tell you 1000 times more than a test kit ever can.

Good luck and sorry for the epic post!!

 

[LearnSomethingNew]

A sump with a decent protein skimmer is recommended. I typically don't like to use used equipment. Only coral dip corals. I believe dry rocks need curing (i think). Once rocks/sand and water is in wait for a month-3months. Good lighting such as T5, Metal Halide, or LED works but for LED use good brands such as Kessil, Aquaillumination, Radions. Do not get damsels they will most likely kill other fish. Get peaceful shrimp first for cycle. Maybe pictures can help out

Thanks for the advice.
I have an EShopp Protein skimmer , I just haven't installed it (this weekend chore) The Damsel right now is quite friendly with the two clown but I will consider moving her along in the future. If I have already nitrogen cycled then what is curing the rock involve.

 

[LearnSomethingNew]

Test your water for copper. Was your rock and sand new or used? If all your inverts are dying I'd question things that kill them but don't kill fish. Sounds like fish do fine.

Thanks, I need to get copper test.
right pic right after acclimation and coral Rx dip
Left pic within 30 hrs

 

[LearnSomethingNew]

did you dip the starfish in the rx dip also? did you cure those dry rocks? I think those tru lumen led strips are supposed to be supplemental lights for light fixture and not meant to be just stand alone reef lights iirc and definitely won't keep corals alive.

Wow , Thanks
I was wondering if these were going to strong enough. I don't think I am going to like this canopy but the wife thinks its best so my 3 yrold won't chunk things into tank. Any good ideas on retrofit of inside canopy with the right LED?

 

[LearnSomethingNew]

did you dip the starfish in the rx dip also? did you cure those dry rocks? I think those tru lumen led strips are supposed to be supplemental lights for light fixture and not meant to be just stand alone reef lights iirc and definitely won't keep corals alive.

I did dip the starfish and carried him by hand into the tank and I think that was the downfall of the starfish after reading a summary on Live Aquaria about the sandsifter intolerances.
I did not cure the dry rocks. Is that the problem?

 

[5altkreep]

Just out of curiosity, how did you measure salinity? And did you check salinity of lfs water?

 

[LearnSomethingNew]

All the above is great advice... don't rush corals or delicate inverts like stars (not your fault I know). 40lb of sand is nowhere near enough for a sand sifting star... can't believe they sold you that!!

Check for copper... If you have any, easiest thing might be to get rid of rock and start again...

Lights are your biggest issue imo with the corals... you need better. Read some of the threads on here re lighting and familiarise yourself with PAR, spectrum and all the other terms used, then you can start to compare lights. IMO if you're after cheap leds that will sustain a reef, you can't go far wrong with Chinese black boxes. Depending on what you want from the light vs cost, these run from Mars Aqua (about the cheapest) through to Evergrow / Reefbreeders IT20 series (most features).

You mention acclimation... what process are you following? Drip acclimation over a number of hours vs floating the bag in the tank is a huge difference.

You posted test results showing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 10ppm nitrate, which suggests your cycle has completed... what did you do to get to that point? Knowing step by step from when you bought the dry rock to today would be helpful.
Assuming you've cycled ok, there's no copper and you upgrade lights, then you'll likely have an algae breakout... this is when you add more cuc. Go for snails over hermits in terms of numbers and get some nassarius snails to keep your sandbed turned over rather than a sand sifting star. This is also the time to add chaeto or an algae scrubber to your sump if you want to... again read the threads on here for more info.
You don't mention a skimmer... do you have one? If not, suggest you get one, esp as a newbie, will really help to keep water params in check. You have a small sump so should have space for one easily.
This hobby can be done on a budget... trust me, I'm doing that with a 320g system (check my build thread... sorry for the blatant self endorsement!)
The key to doing it budget is to buy second hand, but buy quality. Second hand deltec skimmer will set you back about the same as a new marine sources skimmer but will work twice as well for twice as long ime.
I'm a big fan of TMC kit, it's relatively cheap, good quality and simple... just like me lol.
Once the algae is under control, add a few softies as first corals... id avoid xenia and gsp as can become pests later down the line, but toadstool and most sinularia are bullet proof.
A few guidelines which have helped me massively...
Ask before you buy, but don't trust 100% what the seller tells you... they want to sell after all
Don't change anything quickly. Only bad things happen quickly in this hobby.
If it's working, stop fiddling! There is something known as HITS (hands in tank syndrome) which describes a (normally) newbie who keeps fiddling and moving things about in the hope it'll make things better... it won't.
We keep water, not fish or corals. In other words, worry about the water quality and flow etc and the animals you have will thrive... concentrate on the animals and likely you'll end up with bad water.
Buy a TDS meter for you ro/di water... it'll tell you when you have problems before you even put the water in your tank.
Watch your tank... for hours if you can. Observation will tell you 1000 times more than a test kit ever can.
Good luck and sorry for the epic post!!

So cycling can happen whether rock is cured or not if I added a bottle of bacteria -bio-spira? what is the actual chemistry of curing the rock as opposed to the accumulation of nitrifying bacteria in the tank for cycling?
It seems my lights are strong enough to get the job done. I understand PAR but didn't think I needed to buy a PAR meter. Should I?

 

[LearnSomethingNew]

Just out of curiosity, how did you measure salinity? And did you check salinity of lfs water?

I have a refractometer and no I didn't check water that corals were packed in .
Should have done that probably

 

[ciscomania]

You never dip inverts in any dip. That's probably like putting someone in a cyanide bath and expecting them to live. I can't really recommend light to supplement the light strips you have cuz I really don't know but my advice would be to get a proper LED fixture and hang it inside your canopy if you plan to grow corals. I think lighting is the most expensive equipment you have to buy for this hobby but good lighting is key to a great reef so I would try to buy the best one your budget allows. hope this helps

 

[Gweeds1980]

So cycling can happen whether rock is cured or not if I added a bottle of bacteria -bio-spira? what is the actual chemistry of curing the rock as opposed to the accumulation of nitrifying bacteria in the tank for cycling?
It seems my lights are strong enough to get the job done. I understand PAR but didn't think I needed to buy a PAR meter. Should I?

In simple terms, curing the rock is getting rid of any nasties in it... po4 can leach out, silicates etc.

Cycling is the process of getting the rock to carry the nitrifying bacteria.

You don't need a PAR meter, understanding what PAR is and what levels corals need, alongside the spectrum, will enable you to select the right light for what you want to keep. I'd suggest your current lights would struggle to hit 150 PAR at the surface, so won't punch down into the water column enough to sustain corals.

 

[LearnSomethingNew]

In simple terms, curing the rock is getting rid of any nasties in it... po4 can leach out, silicates etc.

Cycling is the process of getting the rock to carry the nitrifying bacteria.

You don't need a PAR meter, understanding what PAR is and what levels corals need, alongside the spectrum, will enable you to select the right light for what you want to keep. I'd suggest your current lights would struggle to hit 150 PAR at the surface, so won't punch down into the water column enough to sustain corals.

Thanks. This helps.

 

[LearnSomethingNew]

You never dip inverts in any dip. That's probably like putting someone in a cyanide bath and expecting them to live. I can't really recommend light to supplement the light strips you have cuz I really don't know but my advice would be to get a proper LED fixture and hang it inside your canopy if you plan to grow corals. I think lighting is the most expensive equipment you have to buy for this hobby but good lighting is key to a great reef so I would try to buy the best one your budget allows. hope this helps

Thanks it does help.

 

[5altkreep]

Great advice so far. As far as lighting, you dont HAVE to break the bank. Look into the black box lights if you want led. They'll grow coral just fine. Or pick up a decent T5 fixture. Then take a few bucks and get yourself some calibration fluid for that refractometer.
Be patient, be wary of advice from people who are trying to sell you stuff, and ask questions here!

 

[Webslinger]

Slow and steady wins the race.