New Flame Angel just dropped dead… (warning: post includes photos)

[PotatoPig]

Two weeks ago I added a Flame Angel to my tank. I came home just now and it was flat dead on its side on the bottom of the tank. No obvious sign of injury. Must have just died as I have ~15 hermits and ~1,000,000 bristleworms and they hadn’t gotten to it. This is my first fatality in about a year and I’m curious if anyone has any ideas why…

Behavior prior: Eating like a pig when fed. Fed both meaty and vegetarian foods. It’s also been picking at rocks, and “investigating” the LPS and Softies. It’s been pushing around the clowns in the tank but hasn’t (AFAIK) been on the receiving end of any aggression. It’s been in the tank for two weeks to the day.

Quarantine: Current QT Protocol. To. The. Letter.

Other tank inhabitants:
Clown Pair (Ocellaris) - the Flame has been harassing them and nipping their fins, and had semi evicted them from their spot. The aggression was very one-way.
Two zebra barred gobies, two mollies, court jester goby, neon goby, mandarin dragonet - no aggressors here.

Inverts: Hermits, snails, porcelain crabs, softies, LPS, SPS, one anemone added this weekend.

Parameters:
Nitrates: ~10 (API, I know I know, but it gives the ballpark)
Phosphates: ~0.15-0.2 Hanna
Alk: 9 (API, I know I know)
pH: 8.1 (Milwaukee digital)

Flow: Mostly moderate, with both higher and lower flow areas.

Oxygen: I run a skimmer that should provide ample.

Hiding places: Lots. Each of the two main rock structures has a cave network within, the pvc was added recently to give the clowns somewhere more to hide from the Flame as it seemed determined to find a home in that corner.

Planned action:
1. Wait 4 weeks to see if anything else dies.
2. I’ve been meaning to add a third rock structure towards the middle with more hiding places. So will add that.
3. Plan to then add fish again, with hopefully more hiding places for territory.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

PotatoPig Welcome to the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Forum!

The #fishmedic team and other knowledgeable members of our community will do our best to help you resolve your questions. Please provide as much of the following as you are able:

• Brief description of the issue you are observing and answers to the following questions:
  • How long have you had the fish with the condition?
  • Did you quarantine with medication when you first acquired the fish? (If Yes, which medication?)
• Current water quality measurements
• Clear photos of the issue taken using WHITE light and/or a short video of any behaviors (post in your response or on YouTube).

If you can help us by providing as much of the above info as possible, it will make diagnosing and providing recommendations for treatment MUCH easier! The Fish Medic team will get back to you as quickly as possible. In the meantime, other members of our community may also share their experience with similar situations and advice that they may have regarding your situation.

You may also feel free to provide a more detailed description of the condition if you wish to share more info than the above list.

Additionally, these links may be useful while you await a response:

• CURRENT QT PROTOCOL LINK
• HOW TO ASK FOR DISEASE DIAGNOSIS HELP LINK

 

[Rene2br]

The right side cheek looks to be swollen. Looks like a sting from something.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Two weeks ago I added a Flame Angel to my tank. I came home just now and it was flat dead on its side on the bottom of the tank. No obvious sign of injury. Must have just died as I have ~15 hermits and ~1,000,000 bristleworms and they hadn’t gotten to it. This is my first fatality in about a year and I’m curious if anyone has any ideas why…

Behavior prior: Eating like a pig when fed. Fed both meaty and vegetarian foods. It’s also been picking at rocks, and “investigating” the LPS and Softies. It’s been pushing around the clowns in the tank but hasn’t (AFAIK) been on the receiving end of any aggression. It’s been in the tank for two weeks to the day.

Quarantine: Current QT Protocol. To. The. Letter.

Other tank inhabitants:
Clown Pair (Ocellaris) - the Flame has been harassing them and nipping their fins, and had semi evicted them from their spot. The aggression was very one-way.
Two zebra barred gobies, two mollies, court jester goby, neon goby, mandarin dragonet - no aggressors here.

Inverts: Hermits, snails, porcelain crabs, softies, LPS, SPS, one anemone added this weekend.

Parameters:
Nitrates: ~10 (API, I know I know, but it gives the ballpark)
Phosphates: ~0.15-0.2 Hanna
Alk: 9 (API, I know I know)
pH: 8.1 (Milwaukee digital)

Flow: Mostly moderate, with both higher and lower flow areas.

Oxygen: I run a skimmer that should provide ample.

Hiding places: Lots. Each of the two main rock structures has a cave network within, the pvc was added recently to give the clowns somewhere more to hide from the Flame as it seemed determined to find a home in that corner.

Planned action:
1. Wait 4 weeks to see if anything else dies.
2. I’ve been meaning to add a third rock structure towards the middle with more hiding places. So will add that.
3. Plan to then add fish again, with hopefully more hiding places for territory.

Can be from post damage from netting or method of capture that caught up to fish and even origin it was from

 

[JoJosReef]

Possible that it was captured using cyanide?

 

[MnFish1]

FYI - small angels have been having an issue lately - which may have played a role - unclear but for whatever reason they have had problems dying at 2-3 weeks. Did you QT (with medication)? It's nearly impossible to tell with a dead fish. (and sorry about the death) - do you have other fish in the tank with any symptoms? I would carefully watch them for any sign of illness.

 

[PotatoPig]

The right side cheek looks to be swollen. Looks like a sting from something.

I think I see what you mean. There’s the new BTA, and possibly the LPS (Acans/Hammers), could one of those really take out a fish like this? There’s also a possibility it ate a Bristleworm?

FYI - small angels have been having an issue lately - which may have played a role - unclear but for whatever reason they have had problems dying at 2-3 weeks. Did you QT (with medication)? It's nearly impossible to tell with a dead fish. (and sorry about the death) - do you have other fish in the tank with any symptoms? I would carefully watch them for any sign of illness.

I had it in QT - copper at 2.5 for 30 days and then three doses of Prazi at 7 days apart. Seemed healthy in QT - always ate, no flashing, etc.

Agreed on monitoring the rest for signs of illness, though this one seemed healthy as a horse this morning…

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry to see - nothing really stands out to me here.

Cyanide toxicity is really common in Centropyge angels, except flame angels, as they are not collected in countries where cyanide is widely used. However, the fish supply chain is fluid and things change - sudden death with no symptoms sure is the hallmark of cyanide use.

 

[Rene2br]

I am not sure how much experience you might have with healthy fish but by your description of the animal, it seems normal. In my experience, fish that have been collected using Cyanide do not behave normally. They are lethargic and not good eaters. Bubble tip anemones don't typically kill healthy fish and most fish stay out of the way of anemones. My bubble tips are very large and have strong nematocysts. I am sure if a fish were to swim into their tentacels, they would not escape. This is from the rashes I get every time I clean my tank. Im pretty sure it took a damsel that was chased into one of them. Maybe it was scared into the nem but from what you said there is no aggression. I have never seen an aquarium fish eat a bristle worm.

Also keep an eye out for any snails or worms lurking around the tank. Try to check it out in the middle of the night.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am not sure how much experience you might have with healthy fish but by your description of the animal, it seems normal. In my experience, fish that have been collected using Cyanide do not behave normally. They are lethargic and not good eaters. Bubble tip anemones don't typically kill healthy fish and most fish stay out of the way of anemones. My bubble tips are very large and have strong nematocysts. I am sure if a fish were to swim into their tentacels, they would not escape. This is from the rashes I get every time I clean my tank. Im pretty sure it took a damsel that was chased into one of them. Maybe it was scared into the nem but from what you said there is no aggression. I have never seen an aquarium fish eat a bristle worm.

Also keep an eye out for any snails or worms lurking around the tank. Try to check it out in the middle of the night.

Cyanide can cause behavioral changes in both directions - excessive shyness or boldness can both be seen in different cases. Then, many cases show no overt signs at all until the fish just up and dies. I’ve charted the mortality in these fish and in most cases, within about 45 days from importation, the fish have either died or recovered from it.
I don’t think this is cyanide due to the typical collection location for this species being Micronesia….but maybe a new area has opened up?

 

[Rene2br]

Cyanide can cause behavioral changes in both directions - excessive shyness or boldness can both be seen in different cases. Then, many cases show no overt signs at all until the fish just up and dies. I’ve charted the mortality in these fish and in most cases, within about 45 days from importation, the fish have either died or recovered from it.
I don’t think this is cyanide due to the typical collection location for this species being Micronesia….but maybe a new area has opened up?

Good to know. Thanks for the information.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Cyanide can cause behavioral changes in both directions - excessive shyness or boldness can both be seen in different cases. Then, many cases show no overt signs at all until the fish just up and dies. I’ve charted the mortality in these fish and in most cases, within about 45 days from importation, the fish have either died or recovered from it.
I don’t think this is cyanide due to the typical collection location for this species being Micronesia….but maybe a new area has opened up?

I looked up the range for this species - in addition to the Marshall Islands (where they use nets) they are also found in the Cook Islands. Although not confirmed, there are some rumors that cyanide has begun to be used there.

That said, of course there are other causes of "sudden death" in apparently healthy fish; strike injuries from being startled and internal nematodes that can cause fish to suddenly die when they looked healthy on the outside - what happens is the nematodes migrate from the gut and out into the fish's body itself, causing acute damage.