New clownfish - action or wait?

[Fulladorn]

I have a new tank I put together a few months ago and recently put in 2 new clownfish. I got them from liveaquaria ORA and they've seemed to do pretty well. I had a makeshift QT where I just observed and treated with Prazipro and Metroplex for the recommended times (about 2 weeks total) and put them into the tank.

One of the clownfish has a stringy poop on and off but looks like this today. Do I need to get involved and do something? Seems not crazy active but will eat here and there.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Do you still have the makeshift QT set up? Any reason you didn’t run them through copper as well? How does the other clown look?
Jay

 

[Fulladorn]

Do you still have the makeshift QT set up? Any reason you didn’t run them through copper as well? How does the other clown look?
Jay

I broke it down now but could put it back together whenever I need to. I didn't run them through copper (but I recently purchased Coppersafe need to get a checker still - just in case) because they looked so well and I ended up taking the risk after doing Prazipro and Metroplex in the QT water. They're the only fish in the tank right now (and a few corals that are doing pretty well). He does not seem to have much of an appetite right now.

The other clown looks perfectly fine, they we're a bit aggressive to each other in the QT in the beginning but the video above is of the "smaller" guy and they are definitely getting along now. Just want to make sure this stringy poop is not the signs of something else. I've had them for just under a month now.

Do you think this fish needs to be QT'd again - what for? I do have to say I've tried to read a lot of your other more general/posts guides and it sounds like I need to mix general cure with the food binder for this fish but I wanted to post to make sure.

 

[Fulladorn]

@Jay Hemdal

Sorry to tag you but I do think something is definately wrong. The clown is just in the corner and not being himself. What can I do? Copper immediately?

 

[Fulladorn]

Added emergency tag, I'm not specifically sure what to do since it mostly seems internal. Outside the fish looks healthy.

I'm putting the QT together, all I can think of is to do copper, any other ideas?

 

[MamaLovesHerReefTank]

@ReefSquad

 

[MamaLovesHerReefTank]

@ReefSquad

hopefully someone will see the tag. I personally don't think copper is what you need right now but I don't have an answer for you.

 

[Fulladorn]

hopefully someone will see the tag. I personally don't think copper is what you need right now but I don't have an answer for you.

Thanks, yea I'm not sure about the copper either.

I have Prazipro, Metroplex and coppersafe on hand. I wish I had seachem focus to get it in the food, but he has not been eating much to begin with - it's ordered overnight though along with a copper hanna checker for the future at least.

Maybe do metroplex in the water column?

 

[MamaLovesHerReefTank]

Just saw this thread. Haven't looked through it but it might give you some answers. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/help-with-prazipro-metroplex-to-treat-internal-parasites.815696/

 

[Fulladorn]

Here's much higher quality pictures of the fish I just took.

 

[MamaLovesHerReefTank]

I would only use the copper if it was ich or velvet. I don't see anything on the clown indicating either one. I've never used any meds for my fish so I'm not the correct person to advise. I was hoping someone would see the tag and chime in.
When was the last time it ate? White stringy poop usually means internal parasites and metroplex/focus seems to be the answer for that.

 

[Fulladorn]

I would only use the copper if it was ich or velvet. I don't see anything on the clown indicating either one. I've never used any meds for my fish so I'm not the correct person to advise. I was hoping someone would see the tag and chime in.
When was the last time it ate? White stringy poop usually means internal parasites and metroplex/focus seems to be the answer for that.

Maybe 2-3 days ago he'd actively go grab food, its been less and less the past few days.

Could it be early brook maybe? I could do a freshwater dip then into QT with metroplex.

Water params have been very stable, I don't dose anything other than a little bit of All-for-reef for the new corals to raise Alk from the normal TMPro salt range. I've stopped the all for reef now that the fish are acting a little different, but I've been using it for a week or so and they've been fine, till the one today.

Water params:
Temp: 77F
Salinity: 34ppt
PH: 8.2
Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate: 0/0/<10ppm.
Alk: 8.7
Phosphate: 0.05ppm

I also did a good 25% water change today with a 6 stage RO/DI that I've always used, 0 TDS.

After the tank cycled and I added fish, I've always ran a slow flow UV 24/7 to try to protect the fish.

 

[MamaLovesHerReefTank]

I really wish I could answer this. I have never used any meds so for me to advise you on how you should proceed would be wrong. I have no experience with this. I have read a few threads pertaining to this issue so I am very limited in my information. Sorry I can't be more helpful

 

[Fulladorn]

I really wish I could answer this. I have never used any meds so for me to advise you on how you should proceed would be wrong. I have no experience with this. I have read a few threads pertaining to this issue so I am very limited in my information. Sorry I can't be more helpful

No worries at all, I appreciate the input!

It's getting late here but I'll finish prepping the QT with water for tonight and I'll be ready to move the fish tomorrow if needed. I lowered the flow a bit for the night to try and be easier on the fish as the swimming seemed a bit slow.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How long did you treat them with Metroplex? Returning to that treatment is one option.

Mucus in feces is common in clowns, but for ORA clowns, I wouldn't expect them to have much in the way of parasites. The mucus is a symptom, not a specific disease, so it really isn't possible to base a treatment accurately on that sole symptom.

Mixing Focus with medication really can't work - the dose is totally uncontrolled. I have an article in the articles library on how to make medicated food properly, but it is pretty complicated. https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/proper-dosing-of-medicated-foods.780/

Here is some background info on the whole mucus feces issue:

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no
serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in
diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces
with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to
be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.
Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of
these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral
antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they
are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in
fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently
cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent
treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food.
However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be
dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not
“drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in
dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of
mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well
researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as
one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure
for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not
do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas
already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW
magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it
as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no
benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct.
Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for
fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has
marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in
fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation
resolved.

Jay

 

[Fulladorn]

How long did you treat them with Metroplex? Returning to that treatment is one option.

Mucus in feces is common in clowns, but for ORA clowns, I wouldn't expect them to have much in the way of parasites. The mucus is a symptom, not a specific disease, so it really isn't possible to base a treatment accurately on that sole symptom.

Mixing Focus with medication really can't work - the dose is totally uncontrolled. I have an article in the articles library on how to make medicated food properly, but it is pretty complicated. https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/proper-dosing-of-medicated-foods.780/

Here is some background info on the whole mucus feces issue:

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no
serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in
diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces
with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to
be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.
Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of
these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral
antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they
are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in
fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently
cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent
treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food.
However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be
dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not
“drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in
dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of
mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well
researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as
one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure
for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not
do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas
already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW
magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it
as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no
benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct.
Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for
fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has
marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in
fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation
resolved.

Jay

Thank you Jay.

The dosing I did was:
Day 1: Metroplex
Day 3: PraziPro
Day 5: Metroplex
Day 7: Metroplex
Day 9: Metroplex
Day 11: PraziPro (after WC)
Day 13: Metroplex
Day 15: Transfer to DT

Do you recommend to QT the fish and do additional Metroplex? Or should I be a little patient here. The diet portion does make sense as I've been trying to feed different pellets (I even ground them up to make it smaller sometimes). I had some live brine shrimp from Algae Barn that it loved but it was more because it was free so I gave it to them as a snack. Not sure what they ate ate ORA, but I can imagine their diet changing being an issue.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sounds like you've dose enough Metroplex.

The troubled with either the diet change or disease hypothesis is that only one fish is involved, at least with visual symptoms. If you can find some frozen brine shrimp, you could try that.

Jay