Neptune Apex and CoralVue Hydros: Personal Opinion and Experience

[PeterC99]

@Nanojoe - Great comparison and write up!

As you mentioned - One important aspect of these controllers are the add-on products. The automated testing and dosing of the Neptune Trident and DOS were game changers for me.

 

[Sean Clark]

I would like my Apex more if it had alarm levels like red alert, yellow alert, and green but alert. Also the idea that only one alert can be triggered at any given time is just silly. All alerts should always be alerting when they should be.

 

[SuncrestReef]

I would like my Apex more if it had alarm levels like red alert, yellow alert, and green but alert. Also the idea that only one alert can be triggered at any given time is just silly. All alerts should always be alerting when they should be.

I agree that the Apex single alarm condition limitation is its biggest flaw. However, you can work around that limitation by creating virtual outputs for each individual condition using When timers to turn them off after a couple of minutes, and then only have the EmailAlm output report on those virtual outputs. You'll still receive a one-time notification for each alarm, and then when you have the chance to investigate, simply move that virtual output's slider back to the AUTO position to arm it for the next alarm situation. Because the alarm will only remain active for a few minutes, it allows future alarm conditions to still become active.

See my Apex Alarms tutorial for more details on these one-time alarm notifications:

Neptune Apex Programming Tutorials, Part 6: Alarms

Neptune Apex Programming Part 6 of our series: Alarms.

www.reef2reef.com

And for those of you who are new to the Apex, see my whole series of Apex tutorials covering a wide assortment of topics:

Articles by SuncrestReef

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ColoredRock]

Yeah I’m just not familiar with the reef pi. I feel as though it would be more technical for the end user typical skill set to really build / program one.

Never owning Apex or Coralvue.. I cant argue that point. ..

Reef-pi is a bit of a learning curve but I cant believe that they all dont have that same issue.
Robs kit gives you the XP8.. and you can add a second. one giving you 16 controllable AC outlets that are not dependent on wifi.. Bluetooth.

You can also leave them in on or off failure for each one... cost break down off the top of my head is like 1/2 the price.

At the end all be all I look at flexibility.

 

[ColoredRock]

@Nanojoe - Great comparison and write up!

As you mentioned - One important aspect of these controllers are the add-on products. The automated testing and dosing of the Neptune Trident and DOS were game changers for me.

This This and this... one day.. .. I would love to have an alk tester.. dont care about dosing. If it gets to that point I need a product that cleans my glass!

 

[Nanojoe]

Never owning Apex or Coralvue.. I cant argue that point. ..

Reef-pi is a bit of a learning curve but I cant believe that they all dont have that same issue.
Robs kit gives you the XP8.. and you can add a second. one giving you 16 controllable AC outlets that are not dependent on wifi.. Bluetooth.

You can also leave them in on or off failure for each one... cost break down off the top of my head is like 1/2 the price.

At the end all be all I look at flexibility.

That’s important to be flexible within the controller. Everyone’s got different setups and goals. Different ways of getting there too.

 

[Greg Gdowski]

Nicely written article!

 

[MotoJJ]

Neptune Apex and CoralVue Hydros: Personal Opinion and Experience

@Nanojoe

Personal opinion and Personal experience // Disclaimer

The scope for this article is to dive a little deeper and, in turn, hopefully help the hobbyist on how they should invest their hard-earned cash from a hobbyist perspective.

I do have hands on experience with both the Neptune Apex and CoralVue Hydros products, although my experience is weighted toward Apex products. I have worked with the Apex products for years as a service technician and have used them on residential, commercial, and public aquariums. My experience with Hydros is at home on my personal Red Sea Reefer 250.



Bear in mind that the following presentation includes my opinions. Please know that I encourage your opinions and open-minded comments. If I made a mistake anywhere, please let me know. This is honestly the first time I have ever written something like this - thank you for checking it out!

This article is organized into the following sections:

• Cost
• Quality
• Ease of use
• Installation
• Connectivity
• Programming
• Apps
• Wrap up

Cost:

For the initial cost of the controller, Hydros comes out on top for all their packages offered. The initial cost can potentially be $100 difference or more. Neptune recently came out with the Neptune ApexEL which includes the “brain”, EB8 and probes which is all you need to have a controller with temperature and pH monitoring right out of the box at a price of $559.95. In contrast, the flagship Apex Controller System costs $879.95 (these are the current retail prices at Bulk Reef Supply) which also includes the “brain”, EB8, temperature probe, and pH probe plus ORP and Salinity probes. If you chose Apex as the controller you want, you can select the lower priced ApexEL and have the option of purchasing the additional probes and, sigh, more modules to do these tasks. Unfortunately, the EL has less plug-in ports than the full starter kit.

The Hydros Controller 4 comes in at $449.95 with the brain, WIFI strip, and probes. You essentially get the ApexEL setup at a cheaper price but no loss of plugins because this is their flagship controller package. The temperature and pH probe are included. The Hydros has many packages - even the Wave Engine kits for flow control with compatible wavemakers. Additionally, Hydros has their “lite” version of the controller, the Hydros 2 which comes in at a very affordable $199.95. Sadly, it won’t support a pH probe out of the box and I am unsure if it can become an add-on. As we learn in this hobby, its evident how important pH is in our reef systems. If I am wrong, please let me know if pH can be added on. Additionally, there is also the XS controller which offers (2) more sense ports in place of the drive ports.

The cost of extras has some variance between the two brands. Neptune offers a lot of modules and even a breakout box to further satisfy the user’s unique needs and wants. One option that encouraged me to move over to Hydros for my personal system was leak detection. With Apex you need a module or breakout box. The LDK (leak detection kit) powered by the FMM (fluid monitoring module) cost $149 retail, whereas the leak detection rope offered by Hydros is $40.

On a related note, once you purchase the Apex FMM to have leak detection, there are still more ports which will allow you to add-on more devices like flow monitoring or using their Auto top off kit (ATK). It does open upgradeability to your apex system that come with the cost of the FMM.

What I recommend is to put together a list of your additional wants and needs for your system and then consider the options that are offered by Apex and Hydros.

Quality:
This is a big one.

I’ve read about people suggesting that Neptune products can be compared to “cheap toys from China”. To be honest, I agree with this comment. For how much you are paying for these controllers, the Apex surely lacks in build quality and feel. It does not feel as though it would survive a good tumble off its mount from a wall. You should avoid installing the Apex anywhere near the water.
Hydros takes the cake here again. The brain is IP65-rated and will withstand splashing and corrosion, which is a big issue with saltwater and electronics/metal components. The Hydros is a sturdy piece of equipment that could handle some mismanagement.
The Wi-Fi strips for the Hydros feel pretty good considering they are only $40. You would assume that the strips would feel like cheap plastic off Amazon shipped overseas based on the price, but not with these units. They are lightweight and sturdy with a thick power cord. The WIFI strips did impress me. The $40 only gets you (4) controlled outlets with a 5th one being a series of USB outlets. Additionally, Hydros has recently unveiled their new XP8 power strip. At the time of writing, the XP8 was just released so I do not have additional thoughts or comments about this product.

The Neptune EB8 has more functional outlets for Aquabus connections, (2) 24VDC ports and (3) 1link ports also 24VDC. There is not a real comparison between the EB8 and the Hydros WIFI strip because the EB8 offers more functionality. I will say it’s one component I feel Neptune did a good job within terms of build quality. If used wisely and correctly it can last for some time. I’ve heard of single outlets failing and not turning on/off and the cost of repair nears the cost of a brand new one. Overall, I do like it and consider it a good piece of gear.

Comparing the two power strips would be apples to oranges. I wish I had some hands on with the XP8 by Hydros to fulfill this piece of the article, but as I said before I have no experience with it.

It does look cool though!

Installation:

Apex-

If you asked me this question maybe, 1 to 2 years ago, I would have complained to no end about setting up an Apex to the internet and Apex Fusion (Fusion is Neptune’s app for Apex control). However, now the WIFI units make it so easy via your phone’s Fusion App. You set up the brain up and download the app. Be near the brain of the Apex and the app connects to the Apex easily and in no time, you are connected. I found this out recently and I was very impressed. There are probably some extra easy steps, but I just can’t think of it as I only did it once. I do remember saying in my head “dang Neptune stepped it up”.

One complaint I have here is that the Wi-Fi brains are not labeled underneath to show where everything plugs in. I remember having to look up where my pH, ORP and Temperature probes plugged in. That may be different now or Neptune may have added a reference sheet.

Examples of a DIY controller board for each:

Hydros –

Another easy installation and setup. This one was a breeze to do and, just like the Apex, everything was quickly connected. The Coralvue Hydros app ran me through connection step by step and in less than 3 minutes I was connected and ready to go with my new controller. Zero complaints.

Hydros made it obvious where everything plugs in. Probes have their own spots and both sense ports and drive ports are clearly labeled. For someone who is new to controllers, trying to plug everything in to the right spot can create a lot of anxiety. Hydros hit the nail here and makes it another user-friendly task.

Connectivity:

For connectivity, both controllers have worked well for me so far. I am only about 2 months into having the Hydros and the only issue I have had is that once the Wi-Fi strip disconnected for no reason, but it was easy to reconnect.


The Apex controllers that I have worked with would disconnect because of internet outages and the only complaint is that they were occasionally reluctant to reconnect. Sometimes I had to manually restart the Wi-Fi connection via the Apex brain.

I found both controllers to be responsive when doing on/off tasks for equipment and there were no problems here.

One thing to note is that the Hydros will need a 2.4 GHz connection rather than a 5.0 GHz connection. It is a good thing that almost all new routers will include both 2.4 and 5.0 bands and you’ll have the available 2.4 GHz already. You should be able to connect to your homes dedicated Wi-Fi with no added steps.

Sometimes the router won’t band these connections and you will see them separated on your Wi-Fi___33 list.

Example:

Nanojoewifi 2.4GHz

Nanojoewifi 5.0Ghz
Notyourwifi (probably your conspiracist crazy neighbor)



*I do not think this is the case for the Apex. If I am wrong, please let me know and I can correct this and add it in the article. As I never had a run-in issue with Apex preferring different band connections.



Programming:

Ah, this is a fun one for me!

Choose an Apex if you want in depth control and have unique desires.

Choose Hydros if you want out-of -the-box programming and nearly plug-and-play characteristics.

Apex gives you the freedom of If/then statements which I really enjoy, and this is great to have full customization. With that capability comes a little bit of a learning curve. With that said, running multiple systems with Apex is actually pretty easy and well organized. I think we had up to 16 systems running off 1 fusion app and I do not recall any hiccups. Most of this setup was for basic monitoring and controlling, but it was easy to navigate everything to do the tasks needed.

The Hydros pretty much does it for you. There is no user input to do in depth coding so I can see some reefers missing out on some aspects, although not as much as you would think.

You set up the outlet for the kind of equipment that is plugged in and its all populated for you. You have the option of changing some commands for that particular piece of equipment.

In this respect, I think the Apex takes the cake, although some may disagree with me. My only thought on that is that those that disagree are hesitant to take the time and learn what it really takes to code the Apex correctly.

Apps:

There is not a whole lot to say for these controllers - I do like both of their respective apps and both companies did a great job making them user friendly. The apps are responsive to their brains when making changes and are quick to send alerts when something is wrong.

Additionally, both apps are intuitive and often have little guides to help you through programming your system correctly. If not, here at Reer2Reef I’m sure you can find your answer easily with a quick search. Also, both controllers have Facebook communities.

I think the Apex Fusion app is a little “cooler” and sleeker to be honest. It is nice to see the graphs on the same page as everything else and it is very streamlined and organized. Hydros offers some similar visuals and they do have “tiles” that make it clear which equipment you want to click on.

No complaints for either app. Chime in if you have any.

Wrap Up:

To summarize, I think both controller/monitors (however you see it) are great pieces of gear to have. They both provide some ease-of-mind when you are away from your aquarium. They each have their individual pros and cons and it is up to the end user to decide what they can and cannot live without. When it comes to our tank’s life support system, it is up to us to decide what is best for our tank’s inhabitants to live long and thriving lives inside the four glass walls.

At the end of the day, I do like both controllers. They both add value to your system and at this point, I don’t really see myself without one now that there more options at different price points. It is hard to say if prices will stay competitive in today’s world. I do hope to see another contender come in with ANOTHER controller… *Side eyes Ecotech* I think there are some very capable companies to bring something to ballpark and hit some homers for the reefing community. *stares at Ecotech*

Hopefully this drops some insight on the controllers for those who are doing their due diligence and research before hitting the checkout buttons at their favorite online retailers OR shopping and supporting at their local LFS (which I support in doing so very, very much).

Please feel free to reach out if you have any questions. Again, a lot of this was some free writing and opinion. I had fun doing so.

Thanks,

Nanojoe

This thread is for the general discussion of the Article Neptune Apex and CoralVue Hydros: Personal Opinion and Experience. Please add to the discussion here.

Is the Hydros by the same company that makes GHL? If so, I'm out. I spent a ton on their controller, spend dozens of hours dealing with their WIFI set up, calibrated everything, the only thing is does correctly is monitor temp. The customer support = zero

 

[thom_smith]

Is the Hydros by the same company that makes GHL? If so, I'm out. I spent a ton on their controller, spend dozens of hours dealing with their WIFI set up, calibrated everything, the only thing is does correctly is monitor temp. The customer support = zero

Hydros is designed and manufactured by CoralVue and has no relationship whatsoever with GHL.

 

[Sean Clark]

Coralvue has a history of dropping products without notice and no longer supporting them. They are a product distributor first with product support a distant third.

 

[thom_smith]

The Hydros ecosystem really compliments other products distributed by CoralVue. For example, others here have stated they intend on getting the Wave Engine V2 to power and control their Reef Octo Octo Pulse 4 pumps. In the case of Icecap Gyre, Maxspect Gyre, Reef Octo Octo Pulse and smaller Reef Octo Varios 2 and 4 pumps the Wave Engine can power each and control mixed brand environments as a single entity. They've got the Kamoer dosing pumps which run off the 12v drive ports. Interfaces to import results Focustronic Alkatronic/Mastertronic automatic testers and dynamically adjust dosing based on measured results. Hydros control of Klir fleece filters is vastly superior to the native Klir controller. Just to name a few... I think we'll see them continue to expand both inside the CoralVue umbrella and anybody beyond who is willing to work with them. This is what really turned me on to Hydros. They are working with other manufacturers which make quality circulation, flow, lighting, testing, dosing, etc products whereas Neptune had up until the recent IoT integrations with Kessil and Sicce, at least in my opinion, become a closed ecosystem very much favoring their own branded products shutting out the likes of AI and Ecotech among others.

I've got a larger Hydros setup with 11 Controls and Wave Engines in my largest collective with well in excess of 100 outputs including many virtual outputs to trigger particular events and **absolutely everything** controlled by Hydros. It certainly helps that most everything in my tank is under the CoralVue umbrella and that which isn't natively supports 0-10v controls. Abyzz, Focustronic Alkatronic & Mastertronic, Kamoer, Klir, Philips Coral Care, Reef Delight NicoBARs and Reef Octo Octo Pulse and VarioS. And I've also got multiple collectives with 0-10v communications between collectives. I'm very pleased with the feature functionality and app experience with few exceptions. The graphing/trending capabilities could definitely be improved and I would very much like to see calendar reminders similar to those I had in Fusion. Some would argue that Fusion has significantly more programming flexibility but I think once you understand the power of Generic and Combiner virtual trigger outputs and using those triggers as Depends below other outputs or schedules or nesting them in other Combiners the Hydros is on near equal footing. Unsure how the app would perform in @Nanojoe's public aquarium scale use case but in at least my moderate scale it seems to perform well. The collective concept permits multiple tanks to be independently monitored and controlled.

 

[KTTX]

Nicely written article. I was curious on Hydros.

I've had APEX for over 6 years now. I just wish it worked better with my MP10 as it keeps doing the "missing" on one of them. Had APEX support log in and they said they couldn't figure out any issues. So living with "missing" and manual reconnecting every other day. Defeats the purpose of APEX if it doesn't control everything.

Interested in hearing more on user experience with Hydros especially if they started with APEX.

 

[Nanojoe]

Nicely written article!

Thanks for checking it out!

 

[doubleshot00]

After reading over the past few weeks in which one to get they both have there downfalls but i see Apex does not last but has all the cool features. Im a kiss style person so Hydros will be my purchase.

 

[Nanojoe]

After reading over the past few weeks in which one to get they both have there downfalls but i see Apex does not last but has all the cool features. Im a kiss style person so Hydros will be my purchase.

Nice! you wont be disappointed. I do like my hydros a lot. Its simple and preforms everything i need at the moment.

 

[MotoJJ]

Hydros is designed and manufactured by CoralVue and has no relationship whatsoever with GHL.

Thank you for this response. Appreciated

Nice! you wont be disappointed. I do like my hydros a lot. Its simple and preforms everything i need at the moment.

 

[MYosh88]

Thanks for the very thoughtful write up! I have an Apex controller on my main tank, and the Hydros on my frag tank. I bought the Hydros XS with WiFi power strip to monitor temperature, leaks, and overflow. This setup cannot monitor pH, but then again it's about $250 cheaper than the Control 4 setup.

Both systems generally work well, but they have their pros and cons, as you explained. A few comments:

I had some WiFi connectivity problems with the Hydros, because I have an Orbi mesh router that can't be easily programmed to broadcast only in 2.4 GHz. I had to buy an (inexpensive) wireless access point to fix the problem. This is explained on the CoralVue website https://www.coralvuehydros.com/product-support/hydros-control/wifi-constantly-dropping/#meshnetworks

I miss the ability to log test results in Hydros.

I also agree with the comments regarding Apex build quality. When I bought the Apex, one of the FMM modules and one optical sensor did not work. It's been my experience that the initial FMM recognition of sensors can be a bit finicky. Seems to to me that the multi-pin/threaded connector system on the Hydros is a more solid connection method than the Apex's 3.5 mm jack.

I also use the less expensive Hydros autofeeder on my main tank. It's about 45 feet away from my wireless access point/frag tank and seems to work fine

 

[Nanojoe]

Thanks for the very thoughtful write up! I have an Apex controller on my main tank, and the Hydros on my frag tank. I bought the Hydros XS with WiFi power strip to monitor temperature, leaks, and overflow. This setup cannot monitor pH, but then again it's about $250 cheaper than the Control 4 setup.

Both systems generally work well, but they have their pros and cons, as you explained. A few comments:

I had some WiFi connectivity problems with the Hydros, because I have an Orbi mesh router that can't be easily programmed to broadcast only in 2.4 GHz. I had to buy an (inexpensive) wireless access point to fix the problem. This is explained on the CoralVue website https://www.coralvuehydros.com/product-support/hydros-control/wifi-constantly-dropping/#meshnetworks

I miss the ability to log test results in Hydros.

I also agree with the comments regarding Apex build quality. When I bought the Apex, one of the FMM modules and one optical sensor did not work. It's been my experience that the initial FMM recognition of sensors can be a bit finicky. Seems to to me that the multi-pin/threaded connector system on the Hydros is a more solid connection method than the Apex's 3.5 mm jack.

I also use the less expensive Hydros autofeeder on my main tank. It's about 45 feet away from my wireless access point/frag tank and seems to work fine

Thanks for checking out my write up!
also thanks for sharing some of your thoughts too.

 

[Tomlagoon]

Just replaced wi-fi strip with XP-8. Now Control 4 powered by XP- 8 via control bus cable.

 

[Nanojoe]

Just replaced wi-fi strip with XP-8. Now Control 4 powered by XP- 8 via control bus cable.

Nice. Do you like it so far?