Need some beginner info I can’t seem to find anywhere else… Help please.

[ReeferinTX]

Just getting back into the hobby after 25+ years… yeah, been some time from the days with the only cycling technique being the obligatory, sacrificial Blue Chromis. So, we are planning mixed reef and starting with the display tank (+/- 80 Gal custom) and a quarantine/hospital setup (possibly with separate tanks for inverts and fish).

After we start the cycle on the DT and complete it with undetectable Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrite levels, how long does this condition last before we need to reintroduce bacteria and start over? Can we complete a nitrogen cycle and then wait 90 days or so to add livestock, or more directly, how long can a cycled tank be left “dormant?” I guess the same can apply to the quarantine tank(s).

Second question, I can’t seem to find any definitive guidance on a bean animal overflow. We are planning 1” drains, but the configuration with length/height, etc. of the 3 drain pipes seems almost like a mythical creature that is as illusive as the holy grail for some reason.

Any guidance would be a great help, looking forward to the advice.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

The way I look at bottled bacteria is that when someone gets a tank they naturally want to put in a couple of fish as soon as they can. Use the bottled bacteria, add a couple fish and with the help of live rock the absolutely important biodiversity that isn't supplied by the bacteria will develop within a couple of months.

If you read the original post, @ReeferinTX said that he had about 90 days and was wondering if the cycle would still be alive after that point. If you have that long to wait, why waste money on a bottle to speed things up?

 

[ReeferinTX]

Just to try and head off confusion, the initial cycle is considered complete typically when ammonia levels drop to undetectable levels, and nitrates are detected. Nitrites typically don’t show much. This lets us know enough bacteria have populated the tank to handle our early fish. The cycle never actually stops, it just finds an ever shifting balance.

Awesome, I think that gets me where I want to go!

 

[ReeferinTX]

While I respect Bean Animal for his amazing design, there are a few aspects that I don’t agree with. First, you need a single gate valve, not three ball valves. A gate valve is much easier to adjust. Second, it doesn’t need to be a Durso. Durso designed his standpipe because of the noise at full flow. In a Bean setup, we want the barest of trickles in the secondary pipe, the less the better actually. A vertical pipe serves this purpose just fine. The last note is you want the outlets submerged no more than 1” when water is flowing. Otherwise the siphon gets air locked and doesn’t work as well, causing issues. Being just barely submerged let’s the air get pushed out until you have a smooth flow from the siphon. HTH

Clear as mud now… lol, JK I’ve got time to figure it out. I think I will finish the plumbing design with the overflow and post what I think will work and ask for feedback.

 

[ReeferinTX]

If you have about 90 days to wait, instead of using a starter kit from anyone, I would get some actual live rock. While it will be a little more expensive than a starter kit, it will give you so much more in biodiversity than any starter kit could. If you are worried about hitchhiker, just put a couple piece in the sump. No need to add anything else. Over the next 10+ weeks, you will get a well cycled tank with organisms that will allow for a much higher chance of success than any bottle can provide. Tbsaltwater.com has some nice stuff.

Thanks. I’m definitely not an instant gratification kind of guy. If it’s better to let Mother Nature do it her way, I can wait it out.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Once you fill up your aquarium with saltwater, powerheads, a heater and perhaps add sand for substrate, the next step is to "cycle" your tank. The purpose of a cycle is to create bacteria that will be consuming ammonia and nitrite from your livestock, but you have to get the bacteria from somewhere initially. Why is it called a cycle? Because the tank will go through three phases: ammonia will rise and fall, then nitrite will rise and fall even quicker, and lastly nitrate will rise and fall. Once Ammonia reads 0 and Nitrate is less than 20ppm, the cycle is complete and livestock can gradually be introduced. The bacteria population will increase with the new bioload, processing waste and converting it to nitrate rapidly. However, it is important to note that overloading the aquarium with too many fish initially can exceed what the bacteria can handle. This is why it is best to add new fish slowly over the next few months. The bacterial levels will adapt if you don't overload the system with too many mouths to feed.
How long does the cycle generally last? Using test kits to measure results daily, you'll likely see the process take up to 21 days.

 

[ReeferinTX]

This is correct, although I would caution against adding very many fish at once regardless of how long a new tank has been cycled... You want to allow the biofilter (bacterial population) time to grow to handle the increased bioload.
Welcome back to reefing!

You bet! Slow and steady, this definitely isn’t a tropical freshwater tank with mechanical filtration where you drop in 7 or 8 fish at a time.

 

[ReeferinTX]

Actually - It is 15 steps and you can find it here

The type of Beananimal solution I use is two drains. One siphon and one for overflow/emergency, With the three drain you have the siphon, the overflow and a separate emergency pipe. I have done the siphon like an upside down U and have a strainer attached to the inlet The hole in the upside of the inverted u is a siphon breaker that will stop the siphon if the return pump stop. The whole overflow-box will therefore not be emptied. Start the return pump and use the gate valve adjust the level in the overflow-box exactly that it just spill over in the overflow/ emergency tube, With three pipes - place the extra emergency pipe´s upper en a little bit higher than the overflow - noy much - but a little.

​

Sincerely Lasse

Actually - It is 15 steps and you can find it here

The type of Beananimal solution I use is two drains. One siphon and one for overflow/emergency, With the three drain you have the siphon, the overflow and a separate emergency pipe. I have done the siphon like an upside down U and have a strainer attached to the inlet The hole in the upside of the inverted u is a siphon breaker that will stop the siphon if the return pump stop. The whole overflow-box will therefore not be emptied. Start the return pump and use the gate valve adjust the level in the overflow-box exactly that it just spill over in the overflow/ emergency tube, With three pipes - place the extra emergency pipe´s upper en a little bit higher than the overflow - noy much - but a little.

​

Sincerely Lasse

Thanks for the input, not that it matters, but how does this differ from a Heriberto overflow other than having the candy cane. I guess it’s just semantics. I just want to make sure I have a solid solution for moving the water as safely and efficiently as possible for the benefit of the animals in the system.

 

[ReeferinTX]

Oops... Ha... 12 Steps... Hi I'm ReefGeezer and I and a Reefaholic.

Now that’s funny, lol

 

[ReeferinTX]

The way I look at bottled bacteria is that when someone gets a tank they naturally want to put in a couple of fish as soon as they can. Use the bottled bacteria, add a couple fish and with the help of live rock the absolutely important biodiversity that isn't supplied by the bacteria will develop within a couple of months.

would you say live sand is a good substitute if you don’t like the live rock as an aquascape solution? I am planning live sand in the tanks and in the fuge in the sump, unless there are tangible benefits in going another direction.

 

[Just John]

would you say live sand is a good substitute if you don’t like the live rock as an aquascape solution? I am planning live sand in the tanks and in the fuge in the sump, unless there are tangible benefits in going another direction.

Maybe someone else can chime in, but I seem to remember seeing on here somewhere that live sand usually doesn't have as much diversity of bacteria as you want. I may be wrong though. @vetteguy53081 didn't you say a couple of months ago that it was not as good as live rock?

 

[Lasse]

than having the candy cane.

The candy cane and the siphon breaker is there because it is possible to have more water left in the overflow box when you have power breaks or stop the return pump. The candy can make the inlet lower - thus prevents air from being sucked down by a vortex and the hole let air in and stop the siphon at a higher water level in the overflow box. The strain because of this

Build Thread - Lasses Dream Build

As you surly have noted – I´m in love with my clean-up crew. I want a lot of them, better to spend money on them instead of chemicals. And I want a melting pot of different species. Some new members And a new FTS Sincerely Lasse

www.reef2reef.com

Sincerely Lasse

 

[ReefGeezer]

would you say live sand is a good substitute if you don’t like the live rock as an aquascape solution? I am planning live sand in the tanks and in the fuge in the sump, unless there are tangible benefits in going another direction.

Live sand cultured in the ocean, not the stuff on the store shelves, can help. The stuff on the store shelves has very little biological diversity, if it really has any life at all. Live rock has more diversity though. I hear ya about not using it as an aquascape solution, but... if you don't use it in the display tank, you could put live rock in your sump along with the sand. I attribute lot of value to ocean cultured live rock. Simply put, more is better. I believe you could create the same cool structures with it as you can with dry rock, but I've never tried it. Maybe someone else has and will chime in.

 

[ReeferinTX]

Live sand cultured in the ocean, not the stuff on the store shelves, can help. The stuff on the store shelves has very little biological diversity, if it really has any life at all. Live rock has more diversity though. I hear ya about not using it as an aquascape solution, but... if you don't use it in the display tank, you could put live rock in your sump along with the sand. I attribute lot of value to ocean cultured live rock. Simply put, more is better. I believe you could create the same cool structures with it as you can with dry rock, but I've never tried it. Maybe someone else has and will chime in.

Thanks Geezer, just a cool name BTW…
We have a boatload of time before we pull the trigger on a tank and start moving forward. I’m just a research junkie so I keep plugging away at things that pop up in hopes of being completely armed to face the project.
I’m gonna post a build thread with we currently plan to go with and ask everyone to poke at it and give advice and alternatives.

 

[ReeferinTX]

You want to allow the biofilter (bacterial population) time to grow to handle the increased bioload.

Understood and agreed, thank you!

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Actually - It is 15 steps and you can find it here

The type of Beananimal solution I use is two drains. One siphon and one for overflow/emergency, With the three drain you have the siphon, the overflow and a separate emergency pipe. I have done the siphon like an upside down U and have a strainer attached to the inlet The hole in the upside of the inverted u is a siphon breaker that will stop the siphon if the return pump stop. The whole overflow-box will therefore not be emptied. Start the return pump and use the gate valve adjust the level in the overflow-box exactly that it just spill over in the overflow/ emergency tube, With three pipes - place the extra emergency pipe´s upper en a little bit higher than the overflow - noy much - but a little.

​

Sincerely Lasse

This is not a Bean, it's a (modified) Herbie. I don't see any benefit to the "durso" main drain... It should be submerged a few inches to allow for a full siphon and a straight pipe works just fine. (No need for a siphon break that way either). My overflow box still has 21" of water in it when I shut off the pump (24" tall tank).

Nothing essentially wrong with the durso, it just doesn't serve a purpose in a Herbie or Bean setup.

 

[ReeferinTX]

This is not a Bean, it's a (modified) Herbie. I don't see any benefit to the "durso" main drain... It should be submerged a few inches to allow for a full siphon and a straight pipe works just fine. (No need for a siphon break that way either). My overflow box still has 21" of water in it when I shut off the pump (24" tall tank).

Nothing essentially wrong with the durso, it just doesn't serve a purpose in a Herbie or Bean setup.

That does seem like the simplest set up to me.

 

[Lasse]

benefit to the "durso" main drain

It is there because you can go closer to the surface and therefore avoid the formation of an air-sucking vortex. With the little siphon break will not cause a vortex before the surface is very close to the hole. It is also there because you can have a net cage - avoiding snails and other animals be sucked down.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

It is there because you can go closer to the surface and therefore avoid the formation of an air-sucking vortex. With the little siphon break will not cause a vortex before the surface is very close to the hole. It is also there because you can have a net cage - avoiding snails and other animals be sucked down.

Sincerely Lasse

My main drain is less than 3 inches below the water line and has a strainer on it. No problems with an "air vortex" and the water level doesn't fall far when the pump is off.

I maintain that the durso is not necessary in the Herbie or Bean setups...

Sincerely, me

 

[Lasse]

In your setup - is maybe not needed but in others where the amount of water going down in the sump - at a power break - is critical - such a construction can minimize the water going down. Or in cases there the overflow box is rather shallow. In your case - you lose 3 inches of water down to the sump - with a my solution you may minimize that to around 1/2 inches.

Not mention that you also minimize the amount of stagnant water in your overflow chamber. My overflow chamber is 19.5 " deep - without this construction I would have around 17 " water that risk to be stagnant and serve as a sedimentation trap because of poor or no circulation. I may not need it ( as for around 90 % of my reefing gears) but it give me some positive advantages IMO. In your case - you will have a 21" high water column with very bad circulation and risk both sedimentation and stagnant water in the bottom.

And if we should be semantic - my solution is not a "durso" - its an 180 degrees bend with a siphon break!

Sincerely Lasse