Need advice, nitrates out of control.

[AlyciaMarie]

@Gumbies R Us and I just tested everything we could possibly think of with different brand tests that we have.

API Test Strips
pH = 8
Nitrate = 40ppm

Salifert Nitrate and Phosphate test kit
Phosphates = 0.25
Nitrates = 50ppm

Red Sea Test Kit
Magnesium = 1080ppm
Calcium = 425ppm

Salinity = 1.023 (this is on the lower end of "normal", so I'm a little concerned with this number as well)

We're all out of whack here, and I now realize this is about more than nitrates? The red is what is considered out of range according to a chart on BRS that I posted in this comment. I know there are some differing opinions on what is recommended for parameters, but I'm all ears. I just want to keep my coral alive. What should we be prioritizing and what steps should we make next? Just a reminder, these are the numbers we're getting after x2 5g water changes over the last two days.

On a positive note, the torch and Duncan look better-ish today, but still not happy.

I also want to add that last week we had this fuzzy/white build up on rocks and some coral. It was easily blown off with a turkey baster and made the tank look like a snow globe. I had posted about it and it was chalked up to sponge, but I'm not so sure this isn't calcium carbonate due to the low Mag levels. Thoughts on that? Picture of the snowy tank below as well.

 

[Miami Reef]

Magnesium tests are garbage and inaccurate. Throw them out (literally). It is a myth and misconception that we need to test for magnesium. Those kits are highly inaccurate and magnesium can be maintained with water changes or with a complete alk/ca dosing system.

Nitrate and phosphate is OK with the higher ranges. This tank has NO3 about 40ppm and Phosphates over 1ppm at the time the photo was taken:
Thread 'Rich Ross - Home Tank - guess the phosphate'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/rich-ross-home-tank-guess-the-phosphate.296635/

The salinity is a bit low and could benefit from raising to 1.025-1.026

 

[AlyciaMarie]

Magnesium tests are garbage and inaccurate. Throw them out (literally). It is a myth and misconception that we need to test for magnesium. Those kits are highly inaccurate and magnesium can be maintained with water changes or with a complete alk/ca dosing system.

Nitrate and phosphate is OK with the higher ranges. This tank has NO3 about 40ppm and Phosphates over 1ppm at the time the photo was taken:
Thread 'Rich Ross - Home Tank - guess the phosphate'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/rich-ross-home-tank-guess-the-phosphate.296635/

The salinity is a bit low and could benefit from raising to 1.025-1.026

Awesome, that's good to know about the mag! We're going to be working on getting salinity up. But I'm still stumped. I just don't see how the salinity alone could be the reason the corals aren't doing good, but crazier things have happened. Is there something else we should be testing for?

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Here’s the light settings

 

[Miami Reef]

Awesome, that's good to know about the mag! We're going to be working on getting salinity up. But I'm still stumped. I just don't see how the salinity alone could be the reason the corals aren't doing good, but crazier things have happened. Is there something else we should be testing for?

Can you post a picture of the corals that are not doing well with white light?

It’s possible the salinity increase can help.

 

[Miami Reef]

Is there something else we should be testing for?

You recently did a relatively big water changes. As long as the salinity is in range, the major, minor, and trace elements will be replenished.

Nutrient starvation can kill corals, this is not going to be an issue right now.

Are you using RO/DI water? Is the TDS output reading 0ppm?

 

[TiltedReef]

I am concerned about overfeeding. You can let me know what you think. We've always fed 1/6th of a <1inch cube of frozen mysis shrimp. From what I can tell, it usually gets eaten up by the fish. I also feed my BTA several times a week, but I don't add extra food when I feed it. I just reserve a small amount to target feed the anemone.

Okay... You shouldn't be feeding an anemone several times a week. Not only will this stress the nem but it may likely start to split from the feeding. In the wild, nems will be lucky to snag a meal a few times every month without hosting clowns. I suggest cutting back on feeding the BTA, overfeeding leads to the expulsion of waste and undigested foods in the nem. Nems take a while to digest what they eat so feeding it multiple times a week is redundant. Overfeeding caused stress may also lead to the nem releasing toxins into the water which will likely effect your coral without a boatload of carbon in the sump to rid the water of the toxins.

t. have a massive LTA that was being over fed, releasing toxins into the water before reading up on nem feeding habits.

 

[AlyciaMarie]

Can you post a picture of the corals that are not doing well with white light?

It’s possible the salinity increase can help.

The main ones I’m worried about are the zoa, torch, toadstool, and Duncan. They may not seem that bad off, but compared to how they looked 2-3 weeks ago, they’re pretty sad. The torch's skeleton is very clearly visible when it's closed up. The Zoas haven't fully opened in almost 2 weeks. And yes, we use RODI.

 

[AlyciaMarie]

Okay... You shouldn't be feeding an anemone several times a week. Not only will this stress the nem but it may likely start to split from the feeding. In the wild, nems will be lucky to snag a meal a few times every month without hosting clowns. I suggest cutting back on feeding the BTA, overfeeding leads to the expulsion of waste and undigested foods in the nem. Nems take a while to digest what they eat so feeding it multiple times a week is redundant. Overfeeding caused stress may also lead to the nem releasing toxins into the water which will likely effect your coral without a boatload of carbon in the sump to rid the water of the toxins.

t. have a massive LTA that was being over fed, releasing toxins into the water before reading up on nem feeding habits.

Thank you! That's very helpful. How often would you recommend feeding?

 

[Naekuh]

Asking out of the blue, but do you have any pets... automatic spray air fresheners, or is it near the bathroom where you use hairspray or any type of aresol body spray?

 

[TiltedReef]

Thank you! That's very helpful. How often would you recommend feeding?

I stopped target feeding my LTA as it will usually pick up the left over flake or brine that i feed the fish with the current and seems a lot happier and really opening up. Not sure if true but i think it also sucks up the nutrients from the Red Sea AB+ i dose the tank with twice a week.

Twice a month i target feed it about 2-3 ml of reef roids.

Cheers!

 

[AlyciaMarie]

Asking out of the blue, but do you have any pets... automatic spray air fresheners, or is it near the bathroom where you use hairspray or any type of aresol body spray?

Yes! We have two cats. We their litter box is at least 60-70ft away and around multiple corners. No automatic air fresheners or hair products. The only thing in that area that may be a possibility is occasional aerosol air freshener in the kitchen area, which is about 20ish ft away and around a corner. Air freshener is rarely used, but for sure not out of the realm of possibility. I didn't even think of that.

 

[TiltedReef]

The main ones I’m worried about are the zoa, torch, toadstool, and Duncan. They may not seem that bad off, but compared to how they looked 2-3 weeks ago, they’re pretty sad. The torch's skeleton is very clearly visible when it's closed up. The Zoas haven't fully opened in almost 2 weeks. And yes, we use RODI.

Different coral also need different intensities of light and flow. I see those frags are still on bases and at the sand bed not glued down. I suggest a nice quick dip (spa day; except the torch dont redip it they get ansty about being handled too much and taken out of water) and then move them around based on their individual needs for lighting and flow and see how they react to the new environment. (lighting example: duncans do well further from the source and thrive at mid water to bed level while torches do better at mid to surface level.) Lighting dissipates as it travels through the water and will have a different effect the further or closer away the coral is to it.

 

[AlyciaMarie]

Different coral also need different intensities of light and flow. I see those frags are still on bases and at the sand bed not glued down. I suggest a nice quick dip (spa day) and then move them around based on their individual needs for lighting and flow and see how they react to the new environment. (lighting example: duncans do well further from the source and thrive at mid water to bed level while torches do better at mid to surface level.) Lighting dissipates as it travels through the water and will have a different effect the further or closer away the coral is to it.

Yeah, we planned to leave everything on the sand bed as it adjusted to it's new home/system and then move it around to more permanent areas. Right around the time we were getting around to moving everything, things started getting upset. I've been nervous about moving stuff around, just because I don't want to stress anything out more. But I think I'm definitely going to now that we've been crossing off other possibilities.

 

[TiltedReef]

Yeah, we planned to leave everything on the sand bed as it adjusted to it's new home/system and then move it around to more permanent areas. Right around the time we were getting around to moving everything, things started getting upset. I've been nervous about moving stuff around, just because I don't want to stress anything out more. But I think I'm definitely going to now that we've been crossing off other possibilities.

I have months old frags still on plugs and bases that i put in a location i think will serve it best and leave them to grow onto the rock. Rarely glue anything down except for the coral that my royal urchin takes a liking to and frequently kidnap lol. If you don't have any rogue urchins and can get enough friction between the rock and base you could leave it in a new spot no problem.

 

[DED65]

With the Toadstool in the tank, it is good that you started running carbon. You may want to change the carbon more often to keep up with any toxins being released, water changes will help too. How much flow do you have? With the build up on the rocks, you could up the flow and see if that helps. The lighting looks a little dim to me, it could be the pictures or the time of the light program though. Do you know what the par is?

 

[Pod_01]

Salinity = 1.023 (this is on the lower end of "normal", so I'm a little concerned with this number as well)

So just to confirm is this Density or relative density? No units implies rel. density.

If it is rel. density of 1.023 that is low:

I would address the salinity, see if things improve and after that look for other issues.

GAC is good idea to use but not too much, it can trip too much out of the water.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

With the Toadstool in the tank, it is good that you started running carbon. You may want to change the carbon more often to keep up with any toxins being released, water changes will help too. How much flow do you have? With the build up on the rocks, you could up the flow and see if that helps. The lighting looks a little dim to me, it could be the pictures or the time of the light program though. Do you know what the par is?

It’s the one return pump that’s causing flow, it’s one setting so sadly no way of adjusting it. I wish there was a way I could check par but I don’t have a way. I run the lights usually around 43-45% blue and 10% white, plus there’s some ambient light in the room since it’s in the living room

 

[DED65]

You could pick up an inexpensive power head to help with the flow. Since it’s you two and for some reason I trust your better half, let me know if you want to borrow my par meter. We can work on details later!

 

[Treefer32]

So, several things. 1. You're reacting vs. making strategic targeted changes. The hard part with this hobby is if you make several changes at once, don't get the results we're looking for in a week then we do 3 more changes. I've done it so many times until I got exhausted and stopped making changes. Then things started looking better on their own!

That said, some things to consider. Low salinity will equal low calcium and low magnesium. Why? Because Calcium chloride is salt and magnesium chloride is salt. If you have low salt volume you'll have low ca and mg. Easy peasy to fix. Mix up some salt water, add it to the sump and let it slowly evaporate over night and the next day. Retest salinity. Add more again and do the same thing. This will allow salinity to rise over time and help you determine how much more or less you need to add. In a 20 gallon it won't take much. So, just be careful that you don't do too much at once.

What I like about your tests for magnesium (not a waste in my opinion) and calcium is that they confirm your salinity reading. High magnesium and low salinity would tell me that one or the other test is wrong. Yes, magnesium tests are highly inaccurate but not that inaccurate usually.

If you're phosphates are .25 after several water changes. I would say you're phosphates were really high. And on top of that, sudden drops. Say they were at 1.0 before the water changes. Dropping it from 1.0 ppm to .25 ppm is a major drop. Usually phosphates should be dropped more than .05 to .1 ppm in a given day(with Hanna ULR Phosphate tester). The corals may really be irritated by constantly changing water. Phosphates are still a little high, but honestly I would let things stabilize. Stop the reef roids (almost pure phosphates) and AB+ for now. (Can always dose later!)

You got plenty of nutrients!

I would give it 3-4 weeks doing nothing else with the tank once water is at 1.025 -1.026. (Just normal maintenance water changes is all and normal fish feeding)

Let it stabilize.

Corals:

Toad stools: Highly Highly moody coral. Usually they don't die but will stay closed for a week or two until they realize the water is finally stable. Until then they don't want to play. They're annoying! (Usually like higher phosphates - .25 is probably perfect for them).

Zoas: Moody as hell. Lol. They should be fine, they just need stable water.

Duncans and Torch: Torch needs medium to high flow. Not blasted, but enough to keep it's tentacles waving around. Same with duncans. I have several duncan colonies, some near my gyres and some no where near my gyres and they all seem to do great. They grow wherever. So, just keeping things stable may be all they need.

Lastly Patience. Nothing happens fast. Stop changing your water chemistry. They need a solid stable environment, doesn't matter how clean or dirty it is right now, they just want to know the house isn't going to keep changing. Would you live in a house and be happy if one day the furnace is on at 90 and the next day it's at 50 degrees. Then tomorrow the shower is 200 degrees and the day after that it's 40 degrees? Then the electricity is sometimes on and sometimes off? No, you'd move out ASAP. Corals can't move out so they just stay ticked off until things stabilize.