Mike Paletta finally recognizes some of the superior qualities of METAL HALIDES over LEDs...

[ineption]

Big respect for Mike Palleta! The guys is OG of reefing and I enjoy listening to him and I like his passion for the hobby.
With that being said, he is a terrible reefer imho. By his own confession he can't stop messing with his tank. Then corals can't adopt to one environment
Because shheat is changing all the time some sensative corals like Tenuis stn, before you know it he is trying to put a narrative on it. Oh It's the vibrio, it's lack of uv in leds which is total bs because most modern leds have uv chips of 365 and 380 which is uv.
Mike leave the leds, mh wont help, automate your system including feeding don't mess around with lantinum chloride and guess what you won't get much stn. have a reliable system for nutrient export or feed less and have less fish and hey presto easy peasy.
PS tough love, big respect and sorry if I struck a nerve

 

[A. grandis]

Big respect for Mike Palleta! The guys is OG of reefing and I enjoy listening to him and I like his passion for the hobby.
With that being said, he is a terrible reefer imho. By his own confession he can't stop messing with his tank. Then corals can't adopt to one environment
Because shheat is changing all the time some sensative corals like Tenuis stn, before you know it he is trying to put a narrative on it. Oh It's the vibrio, it's lack of uv in leds which is total bs because most modern leds have uv chips of 365 and 380 which is uv.
Mike leave the leds, mh wont help, automate your system including feeding don't mess around with lantinum chloride and guess what you won't get much stn. have a reliable system for nutrient export or feed less and have less fish and hey presto easy peasy.
PS tough love, big respect and sorry if I struck a nerve

Thanks very much for your sincere opinion on the subject!
Very constructive thought!
Paletta messes up too much with his tank, yes!
I also don't think the reason why he has STN or RTN should be directly addressed to the lack of UV alone. I believe there is more to it! I also do not suggest the use of Lanthanum Chloride in ANY case. Tested many times in different situations and thank God never lost anything to it, but can guarantee that's not a great way to eliminate nor to control PO4 in any system containing invertebrates in the long run. But I also do not recommend the use of excess activate carbon, or any other phosphate remover by what I've been through. Just me. My personal observations and opinion!
I do not think Mike is a perfect example of a hobbyist in many ways. I do admire his passion to experiment and learn, and most of all, the fact that he exposes his failures in public. I respect him for his long time in the hobby and as a person, though. I think that is very important here too. I think we all learned a lot from his "stupid" mistakes. We all do stupid mistakes, to tell the truth. But some of his mistakes are double dose IMHO.
Point here is to bring the core of the benefits he actually saw from the spectrometer and the actual proof of what we have been trying to explain to this new generation for so many years... and RESULTS observed. We can't deny facts! Most LED users that defend their purchases uses electricity, heat and aesthetics' arguments. We are talking about light quality. But at the same time we need to also respect their choices and the values and preferences to each of us is different. I get that, of course.
When I criticize LED companies for their lies, comparing to halides, I'm not criticizing the people who buys them.
By the way, to reproduce the amount of proper UV a metal halide emits using LEDs is practically impossible. The plastic diode would melt, and if it was made out of glass it wouldn't practically last as long anyways and would be financially prohibitive.

 

[hart24601]

Was Mike the one who had a build thread here and you jumped on it after he switched and incessantly badgered him about leds and he stopped posting?

 

[Oldreefer44]

1. He is going to try Halides for a few hours a day to see if it helps with STN/RTN.
2. They are going to be in addition to his LEDS. He is not getting rid of his LED's.
3. I have used all of the above and wouldn't consider going back to the bulky, noisy and hot halides.
4. My issue with sps growth is that I have too much of it and am running out of room so I don't need faster growth.
That being said, to each his own. All the lights mentioned will grow corals and it is my opinion that different types of lights will grow different types of corals differently. It is also my opinion that there are things more important than specific types of lighting such as water stability and quality. Too often we are distracted away from the basics by trying to sell others on what we have seemingly to validate our choices. That is human nature.

 

[hart24601]

Was Mike the one who had a build thread here and you jumped on it after he switched and incessantly badgered him about leds and he stopped posting?

Ah yes it was. You had to start a separate thread then as admins wouldn’t allow more on his personal build.

Debating the use of LED's in Mike Paletta's new tank

ADMIN NOTE: This post and a number of posts under it were moved from Mike Paletta's build thread in order to keep that thread on topic. You can find that build thread here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-new-tank-by-mike-paletta.424677/...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[A. grandis]

1. He is going to try Halides for a few hours a day to see if it helps with STN/RTN.
2. They are going to be in addition to his LEDS. He is not getting rid of his LED's.
3. I have used all of the above and wouldn't consider going back to the bulky, noisy and hot halides.
4. My issue with sps growth is that I have too much of it and am running out of room so I don't need faster growth.
That being said, to each his own. All the lights mentioned will grow corals and it is my opinion that different types of lights will grow different types of corals differently. It is also my opinion that there are things more important than specific types of lighting such as water stability and quality. Too often we are distracted away from the basics by trying to sell others on what we have seemingly to validate our choices. That is human nature.

1. He can't blast for too many hours a day at first. He would loose his corals, if so.
2. Just like he did when he went from halides to LEDs. Other wise he will shock the system. Halides will be the main lights, though.
3. That's your personal opinion based on the "bulky", "noisy" and "hot" argument, not quality of light alone.
4. Faster growth is actually the normal growth of many species of SPS. Your choice. With faster growth you can spread corals to your friends and have the benefits from it. Or sell them. It's a way to contribute to the hobby and diminish prices, making frags accessible to others! The hobby actually GROW like that IMO.

Thank you so much for your post! I think if we follow this line this thread can actually turn into a nice room for rational debate.

 

[A. grandis]

Was Mike the one who had a build thread here and you jumped on it after he switched and incessantly badgered him about leds and he stopped posting?

Ah yes it was. You had to start a separate thread then as admins wouldn’t allow more on his personal build.

Debating the use of LED's in Mike Paletta's new tank

ADMIN NOTE: This post and a number of posts under it were moved from Mike Paletta's build thread in order to keep that thread on topic. You can find that build thread here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-new-tank-by-mike-paletta.424677/...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks for bringing that here!!!
This way people can see what I don't agree with Mike.
Also, how wrong he was when he was promoting those LEDs and mainly THE WAY he did. No one is perfect!!!
I'm not sure why he stopped posting, but now we see him actually considering my words after all the years I've been telling him and Dr. Sanjay how wrong they were about halides!
You forgot to post what Tullio Dellaquila have been teaching in public about metal halides and the benefits.
I'll help you with that:









Note that Tullio does not condemn the use of LEDs. he actually was the one who introduced LEDs to this hobby long ago. He just happen to lay the cards on the table, explaining the facts of lighting.

edit: by the way... I didn't open that thread... the admin did.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

Thanks for bringing that here!!!
This way people can see what I don't agree with Mike.
Also, how wrong he was when he was promoting those LEDs and mainly THE WAY he did. No one is perfect!!!
I'm not sure why he stopped posting, but now we see him actually considering my words after all the years I've been telling him and Dr. Sanjay how wrong they were about halides!
You forgot to post what Tullio Dellaquila have been teaching in public about metal halides and the benefits.
I'll help you with that:









Note that Tullio does not condemn the use of LEDs. he actually was the one who introduced LEDs to this hobby long ago. He just happen to lay the cards on the table, explaining the facts of lighting.

edit: by the way... I didn't open that thread... the admin did.

so we’re going to ignore how you de-railed his build, are simultaneously praising and condemning him for ignorance, and your idea of a debate is to spam R2R until everyone agrees with you?

 

[Jeffcb]

I may need to try Metal Halides!

 

[A. grandis]

so we’re going to ignore how you detailed his build, are simultaneously praising and condemning him for ignorance, and your idea of a debate is to spam R2R until everyone agrees with you?

Have you seen the definition of spam?
Do you think the subject of the thread is worth of a discussion?
I'm actually waiting for YOU, or ANYONE here to discuss the possible benefits of metal halides for reef tanks over ANY LEDs. Or discuss how LEDs could surpass it's benefits as facts from practical experiences in a polite way.
I think that is what a forum like this would exist for.
Lighting is the subject.

 

[MaxTremors]

Also, what is with these absurdly self-righteous posts the last few days?

 

[BeltedCoyote]

Have you seen the definition of spam?
Do you think the subject of the thread is worth of a discussion?
I'm actually waiting for YOU, or ANYONE here to discuss the possible benefits of metal halides for reef tanks over ANY LEDs. Or discuss how LEDs could surpass it's benefits as facts from practical experiences in a polite way.
I think that is what a forum like this would exist for.
Lighting is the subject.

I’m going be using t5. LEDs have plenty of evidence to say they work as well as halides. Just not the route I’m going due to cost


but I’ll let you try and convince me halides are better than my t5s

and really. You de-railed mikes thread but you think we should listen to you based on him?

 

[kenchilada]

The power consumption argument is always odd to me. Isn’t a G5 Pro like 200W? For an 18x18” recommended spread? For $750?

The added heat was always my biggest problem with halide. Can’t say I really see a difference in my power bill though.

I mostly avoid full LED because of the high cost for good coverage and the very aggressive marketing. My 8x80W Sunpower will give asphalt a tan, and I paid $200 for it. I have a few used Kessils next to it for shimmer.

 

[ScottB]

I will just continue to squeak by without MH over my display. It is never going to happen in my living room.

 

[X-37B]

I will just continue to squeak by without MH over my display. It is never going to happen in my living room.

Yea thats squeaking by alright, lol.
I am leaning towatds Orpheks for my upgrade. I have always had halides and never had a problem with the dreaded heat issue.
All types of lighting work if you know what your doing, imo.
I have seen to many awesome led tanks to think otherwise.

 

[A. grandis]

I’m going be using t5. LEDs have plenty of evidence to say they work as well as halides. Just not the route I’m going due to cost


but I’ll let you try and convince me halides are better than my t5s

and really. You de-railed mikes thread but you think we should listen to you based on him?

LOL! I absolutely LOVE T5s!!!! Using them for so many years!
Are you kidding?!?! LOL!
They are the easiest way to light your reef tank!
Love ATI. Superb customer service as well.
Better than any LED in existence if you have a tank less than 24" high.
You are a lucky boy!
I also have halides since I was a kid. Both work great!!!!! Different results!

 

[BeltedCoyote]

LOL! I absolutely LOVE T5s!!!! Using them for so many years!
Are you kidding?!?! LOL!
They are the easiest way to light your reef tank!
Love ATI. Superb customer service as well.
Better than any LED in existence if you have a tank less than 24" high.
You are a lucky boy!
I also have halides since I was a kid. Both work great!!!!! Different results!

im honestly surprised you’re not on a crusade against t5s.

but then they have a heck of a track record. I’ll be using ati as well. And I will admit I like the simplicity of t5.

 

[RMS18]

I'd like to go to MH, but just with T5 the house temp has to stay at 72 during the summer or the tank will swing from 78-79 to 82+. Can't imagine what MH would do, and I do not have the space for a chiller.

 

[i_am_mclovin]

Unless it's a Giesemann.

Their fixtures look great. Too bad you can only buy direct from Germany now

 

[i_am_mclovin]

I may need to try Metal Halides!

If you’re like me, tank in basement where heat isn’t an issue, it can work great.