Mike Paletta finally recognizes some of the superior qualities of METAL HALIDES over LEDs...

[TaylorPilot]

I run T5/LED hybrid nowadays. I will admit (even though how you speak and promote things feels like sandpaper) that my 150w sunpod with a 20k MH bulb was the key piece to my award winning 29g biocube back in 2010. Couldn’t keep the water under 80 no matter what I tried though.

the reason I like the hybrid is I get the T5 coloration and coverage and can adjust the led to supplement color by type. I could have my reef look like a 10k or a 20k with a controller, and I like that I can tune it to my liking. The main reason I think people went away from MH was heat and also electric cost.

But does it really use less power? Even BRS admitted in one of their later videos, that the idea of lower power consumption was never realized as the LED panels grew in power in numbers to try to mimic MH or T5. I think once you get into the 5' and larger tanks, the cost savings goes away. You need so many of the LED panels, that they begin to burn just as much power as a MH bulbs in good reflectors. On a nano, they do make more sense, just because MH's are too big and really work best on 24" to 32" cubes. They do put out more infrared, so they do produce some more heat. But in my book that isn't necessarily a bad thing, if you can manage the heat (the heat was never a problem to me) because it means they are putting out a broader spectrum, not just peak wavelengths.

I think they general rule of thinking with lighting is kind of where we were 10 years ago with skimmers...the only thing that mattered was airflow (because it was easily measured), so they were designed with only airflow in mind. Eventually people figured out that a skimmer with a 5" diameter neck on a 120 gallon tank wasn't a good thing. Now everyone is turning the air down and shrinking the necks back down. Although I do think the current needle wheel on a DC pump setup isn't the best way to achieve it.

 

[oreo54]

it means they are putting out a broader spectrum, not just peak wavelengths.

Unless you are referring to 6500k or close mh's that is often incorrect. LED's can have broader spectrums than many MH's and all sorts of spikes..

g5 pro..

 

[A. grandis]

The way spectrum is produced, stabilized, blended, emitted and distributed is very different when comparing MH and LEDs though.
Practically, any LED will never be able to produce the same spectrum and emit exactly at the same intensity a metal halide can. The way they work is totally different. Therefore they will produce actual results totally differently.
Graphics can only show what sensors could read.
It would be interesting to see some spectrum graphics from the same spectrometer and sensor showing the comparison. Still what the sensor would capture and display as a graphic wouldn't be what the coral receives in reality. I believe there must be also a difference in sensorsto be able to capture the light from each source in order to be more fair to our understanding.
I heard before that spectrum charts for LEDs would have to be smoothed out in order to look more decent. Not sure how much that would be for each case.

 

[oreo54]

any LED will never be able to produce the same spectrum and emit exactly at the same intensity a metal halide can. The way they work is totally different. Therefore they will produce actual results totally differently.
Graphics can only show what sensors could read.
It would be interesting to see some spectrum graphics from the same spectrometer and sensor showing the comparison. Still what the sensor would capture and display as a graphic wouldn't be what the coral receives in reality. I believe there must be also a difference in sensorsto be able to capture the light from each source in order to be more fair to our understanding.
I heard before that spectrum charts for LEDs would have to be smoothed out in order to look more decent. Not sure how much that would be for each case.

Conversely any MH will not produce the same spectrum as an LED..
Means nothing in general.. Specifics "might" like the 365 spike..
365 and below is filtered out by the safety glass though the efficiency of this varies..

I heard before that spectrum charts for LEDs

You are spreading nonsense..
BOTH are smoothed.. LED raw data is NOT smoothed in any way as much as you butt-u-me..
Matter of fact it is hardly worth noting..
This is the "pump" for stimulating the salts in the tubes.

White LED data..

WHITE-LIGHT LEDS: Pitted LEDs emit broad spectra

Two types of phosphor-free white-emitting LEDs have been developed that appear, at first glance, to rely on the same concept for white-light emission; however, when examined in...

www.laserfocusworld.com

Stick to arguments you have some real data of..

 

[A. grandis]

Graphics are graphics. Results are results.
So many colorful pictures. They are mostly all different even using the same bulbs. More like a rough reference accordingly to the source they come from, really.
Facts are what the results we see on corals are. More important IMO.

 

[oreo54]

Graphics are graphics. Results are results.
So many colorful pictures. They are mostly all different even using the same bulbs. More like a rough reference accordingly to the source they come from, really.
Facts are what the results we see on corals are. More important IMO.

So stop spreading lies like.. LED spectrums are smoothed heavily..
You are welcome to prove me wrong btw..

My point is generally speaking LED spectrums can emulate MH's to a certain degree just fine..
No magic photons..

Most of the "white" in mh's comes from a blue spike, green spike, and amber/red spike.
not much different than led and t5's which btw use RGB phosphors to create white.
Leds use a blue pump and yellow/green phosphors and sometimes some red thrown in.
some leds use a violet pump and RGB phosphors. Pretty identical to a t5.

 

[oreo54]

One more pretty picture since I find it baffling..
Hamilton 14000k.. Needs smoothing..

y axis needs data.. or it's trickery..

 

[A. grandis]

So stop spreading lies like.. LED spectrums are smoothed heavily..
You are welcome to prove me wrong btw..

"I heard before that spectrum charts for LEDs would have to be smoothed out in order to look more decent. Not sure how much that would be for each case."
I remember one of the guys here actually used to work with LED graphics...
I heard...
Edit: I don't really care too much about graphics... care about actual results. You already know that long time, Oreo.

 

[A. grandis]

One more pretty picture since I find it baffling..
Hamilton 14000k.. Needs smoothing..

y axis needs data.. or it's trickery..

Just one more colorful picture you are posting, as I've said.

 

[Solga]

Graphics are graphics. Results are results.
So many colorful pictures. They are mostly all different even using the same bulbs. More like a rough reference accordingly to the source they come from, really.

This can actually go "for" or "against" every single claim that you are making. Statistics are just that, statistics based on a hand selected group of individuals or circumstances formed to support an idea or cause. As I said before, How do we KNOW what corals REALLY like for their health and growth ?

As far as the natural spread and growth comment goes, I have seen a multitude of pictures or coral that look like trees after a tornado went through (all leaning one way).

Facts are what the results we see on corals are. More important IMO.

This is tiring ... You keep saying facts this, and facts that. Do you even know what a "fact" is ? By definition, it is something that can be proven WITHOUT interpretation. Throughout this entire thread, you consistently give (admittedly) your opinions, and voice your interpretations based on what "your friends" tell you, things that "you've heard". I have many opinions too, but just because my "friends" side with me, doesn't make it true or a fact.

Do me a favor, and PROVE that MH lighting (in general) is better than LED's or T5's, and will produce healthier (and lets define healthy) coral, and better growth, WITHOUT quoting a friend, or someone you know, and I will be a follower of yours until something better can be proven.

BTW, I do believe that MH lighting is a great system, and can produce outstanding results. I also believe the same about LED and T-5 systems. I am just not sold on any one of them being better than the others.