Loud Synergy Reef Overflow

[h8edpurdie]

All the responses I've received so far have been very thought-provoking to say the least. It has also reminded me of some details I probably should have included in the beginning, but in my rush to post this I inadvertently forgot about.

The sump is located in my garage on the other side of the tank. The drains run 7-8 feet MAX. I did keep them all at the 1.5" drain size. I toyed with reducing to 1" but wanted the higher flow as advertised not knowing this thing actually wasn't as silent as they claim. This might be something I look into.

My return is running through 3/4" PVC as recommended by some other reefers I know. The pump is running at 100%. There are 2 loc-line nozzles they go to. PVC is maybe 6 feet to first then another 6ish feet to the other.

Before I tore my tank down 2 years ago to reseal and start over, I was running 2 hang-on-back overflows with the U-tube going over the top. This was running a total of 2 1" drains to my sump. This was DEAD silent. I could stand right next to it and it was quiet without needing a freaking gate valve or any other type of valve to adjust, all while using this same return pump on the exact same settings. I wanted to set this up correctly, so I drilled the glass for this overflow. If I knew then what I know now, I would have searched for other options. Being that this was so highly recommended and sold by BRS, I decided on this unit.

@neilp2006 if the EMS overflow will fit the existing holes I drilled without further modifications to the tank, I'll happily look into it. In my quick search, I haven't found that information though will continue to look after I get off work.

When I did try lowering the power from my return, I admittedly don't remember adjusting the gate valve. I'll attempt this tonight and see if I can get better than what I've got now. Running my return at lower power is probably better for the pump anyway.

Even if I can't get this thing dead quiet, what concerns me is the salt creep on the fully closed lid. If I could solve that problem alone I'd be happy. The photo of the salt creep in my original post is only after a few days of running. Not months or longer. A few days. You'd think a closed lid wouldn't have this problem.

 

[fcmatt]

I can confirm that at a lower flow the box can be dead silent as long as your power heads in the display are not kicking up waves at the entry point of the internal box. Naturally you will get a bit of noise from that.

If it was me I would lower the flow all the way down and open the valve all the way. Slowly close it until optimal.

Before u do that lower your 3 pieces in the external box a bit. You need that water at least 1 1/2 inch from the top. 2 is better. Approx.

As another just said. This works at lower flow. May as well experiment.

 

[User]

All the responses I've received so far have been very thought-provoking to say the least. It has also reminded me of some details I probably should have included in the beginning, but in my rush to post this I inadvertently forgot about.

The sump is located in my garage on the other side of the tank. The drains run 7-8 feet MAX. I did keep them all at the 1.5" drain size. I toyed with reducing to 1" but wanted the higher flow as advertised not knowing this thing actually wasn't as silent as they claim. This might be something I look into.

My return is running through 3/4" PVC as recommended by some other reefers I know. The pump is running at 100%. There are 2 loc-line nozzles they go to. PVC is maybe 6 feet to first then another 6ish feet to the other.

Before I tore my tank down 2 years ago to reseal and start over, I was running 2 hang-on-back overflows with the U-tube going over the top. This was running a total of 2 1" drains to my sump. This was DEAD silent. I could stand right next to it and it was quiet without needing a freaking gate valve or any other type of valve to adjust, all while using this same return pump on the exact same settings. I wanted to set this up correctly, so I drilled the glass for this overflow. If I knew then what I know now, I would have searched for other options. Being that this was so highly recommended and sold by BRS, I decided on this unit.

@neilp2006 if the EMS overflow will fit the existing holes I drilled without further modifications to the tank, I'll happily look into it. In my quick search, I haven't found that information though will continue to look after I get off work.

When I did try lowering the power from my return, I admittedly don't remember adjusting the gate valve. I'll attempt this tonight and see if I can get better than what I've got now. Running my return at lower power is probably better for the pump anyway.

Even if I can't get this thing dead quiet, what concerns me is the salt creep on the fully closed lid. If I could solve that problem alone I'd be happy. The photo of the salt creep in my original post is only after a few days of running. Not months or longer. A few days. You'd think a closed lid wouldn't have this problem.

Yeah, he makes a literal drop in replacement with the same hole spacing. It’s on the site.

And yes to the salt creep. The outer box is so flimsy, the weight of the water in it bows the plastic leaving gaps in the seal for the lid

Ems boxes are made from 1/4” acrylic, have great heft, and don’t bow under the weight of the water they are designed to hold.

 

[h8edpurdie]

Yeah, he makes a literal drop in replacement with the same hole spacing. It’s on the site.

And yes to the salt creep. The outer box is so flimsy, the weight of the water in it bows the plastic leaving gaps in the seal for the lid

Ems boxes are made from 1/4” acrylic, have great heft, and don’t bow under the weight of the water they are designed to hold.

You're awesome. Thank you.

 

[User]

You're awesome. Thank you.

Lol, can you tell my wife that?

Cheers!

And since I have very little shame- come by my thread and say hi, lol. There’s a great core group that hangs out there.

 

[User]

Naturally you will get a bit of noise from that.

Why ‘Naturally’? I can push my gyre to 70% straight at my ems box from 6 feet away and it doesn’t increase noise one decibel. If I pulse it and it creates a standing wave, I hear a little trickle every couple minutes as the two gyres sync.

The issue is the drop between the water level in the outer abc inner boxes. That drop exists any time you run the flow above like 500gph or have it vary.

If it was me I would lower the flow all the way down and open the valve all the way. Slowly close it until optimal.

Now you are letting a badly designed outer box dictate the flow rate in your tank. What if you want sps or want to run triton that needs 10x sump flow? You're limited to a 40b, otherwise pushing 500gph increases noise.

I have a 180. I do 3x sump flow and make up the rest in DT with gyres. But even that 3x flow was too much for the shadow to manage. Even though I restricted the pipes to 1”, I should still have the potential for 900gph through a 1” full siphon with my drop height. I couldn’t even do 500 before I started getting noise.

Consign it to the ‘pile of regret’ that we all have, and go ems. It’s the only way for a tank bigger than a 60

 

[User]

Lol, can you tell my wife that?

Cheers!

And since I have very little shame- come by my thread and say hi, lol. There’s a great core group that hangs out there.

You too @JoshH - it’s like a synergy support group over there lol

 

[JoshH]

You too @JoshH - it’s like a synergy support group over there lol

Heck I can't even keep up with the few threads I'm apart of now but I'll give it a go!

 

[User]

Heck I can't even keep up with the few threads I'm apart of now but I'll give it a go!

just drop in occasionally to remind me I suck. Ever since I ‘ignore listed’ a bunch of people from the last ‘incident’ I kinda miss the attention, lol

 

[n4s]

I have two synergy overflows on my 260 gallon running near silent. Is your emergency outlet at least a few inches above the sump operating level? How far is the gate valve to the output of the full siphon drain?

 

[User]

I have two synergy overflows on my 260 gallon running near silent. Is your emergency outlet at least a few inches above the sump operating level? How far is the gate valve to the output of the full siphon drain?

I’ll answer-

Edrain drops 6 inches from the end of the pipe to the water level. Not that it matters because the edrain is totally dry and has zero bearing on the operation of the other two in normal use. The outlet of the main siphon and the secondary are 0.75@ below the water line, where they should be for a BA system

My gate valve is 2 inches from the end of my main siphon outlet


Sometimes these overflows just don’t work. Current theory is bigger tanks with more remote sumps are a commonality, but the actual noisiness is well documented to be due to the different water levels in the inner and outer boxes caused by the outer box being too low

 

[User]

I have two synergy overflows on my 260 gallon running near silent. Is your emergency outlet at least a few inches above the sump operating level? How far is the gate valve to the output of the full siphon drain?

Flow rate and sump distance from tank

If the sump is 4 feet below the overflow and your sharing 1500gph between two overflows- yes, that’ll be silent because it’s below the >800gph rate that seems to be a common factor in failures.

Try putting 1200 through 1 overflow and hear what happens...

Since the overflow is rated for 1600, shouldn’t that be 1600 hog *and silent* since it’s called the *silent overflow*?

 

[n4s]

My sump is about 12 feet below the overflows and running roughly around 2000gph. So 1000 each.
When I first installed mine, it was noisy as well. I made two changes and it fixed the problem. I moved the valve few inches from the outlet instead of near the inlet due to what sounded like air being trapped near the valve. That solved that sound.
Next I cut the outlet of the emergency drain above the sump water level rather than below. What appeared to be happening was with the cover of the overflow on it was air tight enough to cause some kind slight vacuum with the water to effectively drain causing gurgle and trickle sounds. After cutting the emergency line it was most likely getting the needed air up through that pipe rather than through the slight gap on the cover or through the weir teeth if that makes sense at all.

 

[ca1ore]

It’s not hard to fix any external box noise on these .... it’s the waterfall sound inside the skim box that’s the problem as you exceed half the rated flow (or thereabouts). One thing I did do that helped was to cut a poly filter pad and afix that to the inside of the skim box against the front and extending up to the bottom of the teeth. This damped the waterfall sound mostly. You have to be carful to not let the pad completely fill the skim box otherwise as it clogs the overflow will also clog. If I were using it on my main tank, I’d build some kind of insert.

 

[User]

My sump is about 12 feet below the overflows and running roughly around 2000gph. So 1000 each.
When I first installed mine, it was noisy as well. I made two changes and it fixed the problem. I moved the valve few inches from the outlet instead of near the inlet due to what sounded like air being trapped near the valve. That solved that sound.
Next I cut the outlet of the emergency drain above the sump water level rather than below. What appeared to be happening was with the cover of the overflow on it was air tight enough to cause some kind slight vacuum with the water to effectively drain causing gurgle and trickle sounds. After cutting the emergency line it was most likely getting the needed air up through that pipe rather than through the slight gap on the cover or through the weir teeth if that makes sense at all.

It makes sense, but I don’t believe it.

You’re saying the lid fits on so perfectly that it’s essentially air tight and ITV was pulling a vacuum until you added an air release via cutting the edrain short.

My problem with that’s is that’s the box is so flimsy, at half capacity it bows so much you can’t even put the lid on properly. So you get a ton of salt build up. If you have salt creep, it’s not air tight

My ba siphon gate valve has always been 2 inches from the end of the pipe. It can’t function properly at any other position- certainly not near the inlet end

 

[TaylorPilot]

Cut your losses and get a drop in replacement that’s is actually silent from Taylor at Exotic marine systems.

Trust me- I and a couple people almost got banned discussing this issue. It’s not worth your time.

And when the pro-synergy fan boys turn up, the ignore list is your best bet.

I have a 180 in wall pushing 800gph. I waited 6 months tweaking every 3-4 days becaause I trusted their marketing nonsense. I’ve tweaked the valve 2 times in 4 months since I got the replacement. And that was because I took my fuge offline abd cut back my pump setting.

Oh- hi @JoshH lol

Thanks for the kind words!

 

[User]

Thanks for the kind words!

No worries Taylor.

That reminds me- I’ve been meaning to leave a review. You deserve all the good exposure you can get- incredible workmanship and willingness to work with a customers quirks, lol. I’ll get it up in a few days.

Thanks again- it truly transformed what it meant to have actank in our living space. I just regret I waited so long

 

[widarecu]

I can’t see the video, is it only me? It shows blank

Interested to tag along as just bought 2 for my new setup ....

I need some help.

I installed at Synergy Reef Ghost Overflow on my 155 gallon bowfront. I followed all the manufacturer's instructions when installing the unit. I for the life of me can not get it quiet. All the videos I see of this in operation have it super quiet, but I'm unable to achieve this. In addition, there is a ton of salt creep that comes out of the lid.

There is a gate valve on the mainline as instructed. The sump is in a fish room I built in my garage so I never hear that at all from inside my house. I've tried putting the drains in the sump below water and above with no difference. I have a Jebao DCP-10000 as my return. I'm currently running it at 100% but tried every power level it has with no change.

Excuse the mess in the below photo. Everything is still under construction.

And here's a quick video with how it sounds. It sounds much louder in the house than what is on the video.

I've tried reaching out to Synergy Reef but have received ZERO replies back. I'm super frustrated and if this is the level of support and customer care they receive, they won't be receiving any more of my hard-earned money.

I appreciate any help/tips/suggestions.

Thank you.

 

[h8edpurdie]

I haven't been in here for a bit and I wasn't getting any notifications of any replies, even though they are on.

So to recap, my return pump has a max flow: 2640gph, max head: 19.6ft. Being those are ideal and none of us have ideal setups, I can understand some loss in performance. It's early for me and I haven't had my coffee yet, but at full power, I would assume that I'm pushing over 2,000gph. I have roughly 4ft head pressure and that's probably over what I actually have. Before I drilled my tank and had the hang on style overflows, I was able to run this pump at full power through 2x 1" PVC drains dead silent. Definitely not the case for me with this new overflow.

@widarecu, I can see the video but it takes a few seconds to show up for me. If you want to see it and it doesn't show up, I can try to upload to YouTube and give you the link. You're really not missing out on much and if you saw it, you'd probably be worried. Honestly, with my experience, I'd return what you just bought and go get what EMS has to offer. I'm currently saving up to replace this overpriced piece of cheap plastic with what they have to offer.

I reduced the power on my return to 10 watts from 80. This has reduced to what feels like a trickle. I'm almost certain a standard garden hose has more flow than what I've got now. Really disappointing. Though this allows me to run the box at a lower level inside so I haven't had any salt creep, though I've still got noise. It's not as bad and I can live with this until I can afford to replace it with something better.

On a side note, I did leave a negative review for Synergy Reef on Facebook, noting the lack of customer service. They responded saying they had no record of me trying to contact them aside from my review. They wanted me to contact them through their website, which is what I did previously. I guess I'll try again and see what happens.

 

[h8edpurdie]

Update:

So after leaving my negative review on Facebook, they asked me to get ahold of them on their website. I told them this is what had done and received no response but would try it again.

After some emails back and forth, I was able to get my overflow silent running my return at full power. It's not completely silent as I can hear a bit of water entering the overflow in the tank, but it's at a tolerable level. I think with further play with the system I might be able to get it there.

Here's the advice I was given by them:

"Here are some points to start with:

1. Set the flow rate you plan on running and do not change this. This will cause the overflow to lose it's tuning once set.
2. Open the gate valve 100%
3. Set your primary pipe length high enough that 100% of the flow is going down it only and the rear bulkheads (coming thru the tank) are about 90% covered.
4. Cut your secondary pipe slightly higher than the current running water level in the box. Maybe about 1/2" to 1" higher. This again is subject to your flow rate and can be different on many systems.
5. Leave the "U" Pipe off of the secondary drain. It is only needed in high flow situations and you likely will not need it.
6. Slowly close the gate valve until water starts to slowly flow into the secondary drain. This should start to silence the overflow. If you are having to close it more than 25-50% than the secondary pipe may need to be shortened slightly.

This will require some trial and error to get it set, but once set you will not have to ever modify them as long as the flow stays the same. With Variable speed pumps, especially cheaper models the flow can vary sometimes and can cause issues. Not always, but it is possible. We have seen it even with higher end pumps like Ecotech as well."

Had this information been included with the overflow or somewhere on their website I wouldn't have had this issue. Giving someone exact dimensions to cut doesn't help either. Experiencing these kinds of issues while following all directions is frustrating.

I'm happy I finally got some help from them and it sucks that I had to leave a negative review to get their attention. I hope that this helps any other user having this issue. I'm still planning on upgrading my overflow to one from EMS.